Best Vessel For A New Stoker To Serve On?

[Stoker]

No offense intended. I did notice that MS will be allowed soon to go on their QL6 and acheive their Cert 3 and will be a requirement to get promoted to PO2. Interesting times.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

No offense intended. I did notice that MS will be allowed soon to go on their QL6 and achieve their Cert 3 and will be a requirement to get promoted to PO2. Interesting times.

True enough...and I don't know of ANYONE in the trade that supported this! Apparently (we shall see), the MS Cert 3 CANNOT be employed at sea as a EOOW until promotion to PO2. This is along the lines of a Cert 4 PO1 CANNOT assume CERA duties (at sea). I suppose in an emergency, you employ whomever you have, wherever you need them. I remember a SAR recall when I was on board HALIFAX-I (was CERA at the time) started Flash up with the EO's writer and roughly 60 minutes later, the EO passed to the CO that MSE was good to go. His 3 Cert3s (IAW MARCORD MS13) were  a brand new one, myself, and him (CFR'd PO1 stoker)!!- Luckily the other 2 showed up prior to sailing but that could have been interesting if we had been out beyond about 72 hours!
There are an awful lot of changes I foresee in the next 5 years and though don't mark my words, I see an amalgamation (of sorts) of MESO into the mix as well-It only makes sense if we are to assume a Total Force concept. Many Army and Airforce trades can do it-we should be able to. After all - - steam, diesel, gas turbine, it's all the same - Suck, squeeze, bang, blow!!!

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Oldgateboatdriver-Interestingly enough, the CM shares exactly, your assessment of the 'situation'.

Well, ain't that just dandy - I don't even know the guy (gall?)

Many moons ago, before the MCDV's even hit the water, some of us old P. res. drivers had proposed a manning scheme where the MCDV crews would be half regs. - half reserve. If one MCDV's captain was regular,his XO would be a reserve and so forth down the line - and the reverse on the next boat. You must remember that in those days, the reserve operated six small ships for basically four summer months at a time and the reg. force operated four PB's year round. This scheme would have meant that the number of reserve and regular force positions would have remained about the same, that all positions on MCDV's would have remained available to the reserves and that the standards for performance of all jobs would have been kept high by the interspersing of regular personnel.

But even more fundamental, it would have given the reg force junior positions of leadership to observe its own developing personnel, from Lcdr's achieving early command where they could prove themselves (or not) before promotion and command of a frigate, or in the engineers case, Cert 2's achieving MESO cert B and acting as EOOW at the rank of MS where their leadership in the position could be observed before their next promotion and employment as such in a frigate.

Need I tell you the scheme was not accepted?

 

[Pat in Halifax]

I recall hearing of that 'scheme'. I think I was a shiny new PO2 at the time wondering what was next for me! I think what happenned was the numbers game. EVERY single position must be accounted for. If you make positions interchangeable, though I agree in theory, this throws off the number crunching. For example, if I am a RegF Cert2/B ticket and cannot sail for what ever reason, I must be replaced by another RegF and that means...stealing him/her from another unit. This is happenning now on a sometimes wholesale basis with HAL class sailing as low as 170 personnel (of a crew of 225). One man (or woman)/one job does not work in a military organization and yet these are the rules of which we are bound to adhere. I was at DC Div when the term "Business Plan" first came out. We had to account for EVERY litre of fuel, every litre of AFFF...you get the picture. So what happens when you got a course of misfits and had to do everything twice (or three...or four times) - There goes your budget. My point here is that we are bound by a Business Plan (manning ceilings) but we are not a business. I am sorry but Walmart does not make their employees qualify on an automatic rifle every year, Canadian Tire does not make their employees conduct CRBN training every two years and Sears doesn't send their staff into a burning mock-up every 2 years!!! I have always said, if you are going to have a military force-Go big or stay home. At any given time, you're ATLEAST 12-15% understrength-meaning you should have 115% personnel on strength.
To me, it is simple. Get rid of the bean counters and hire more sailors, soldiers and airmen/women!!
Okay, I have vented for today-Now you have me wanting to stop off at that store that sells the evil tins of devil's juice...and it is only Monday!

 

[NavyShooter]

I will suggest that a posting to ANY ship that's actually SAILING will be best for your career in the long run.

NS

 

[Pat in Halifax]

NavyShooter-That`s sort of what I was saying-Didn`t you get that!

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Further to this MAR ENG/MESO thing, there was a meeting in Halifax Wednesday afternoon. Among other things, 10 RegF LS were identified for B-ticket "cross training" this summer and meetings continue to look at bringing MESOs over to HAL/IRO class for Cert 1/A ticket training. I looked at the 'suggested' delta course for the RegF stokers and chuckled. First off, NOWHERE in the documentation did I see a stoker's name involved in discussions so (yet, once again!), I stuck my nose in the melee where some figure it doesn't belong!
In 1996, I came over from GATINEAU (steamer) to TORONTO (HAL class), did a 3 week course on equipment, and took about 4 months total to requal a Cert 3 AND get my Duty Tech qual and I will tell you that there is no more "night and day" than steamer to frigate. I am not bragging-this was the expected norm.
These 'hand picked' RegF LS need maybe 3 weeks classroom, a week of famil alongside and I would dare say 4-6 weeks at sea on a dedicated training platform - Hey! - That sounds like what we do for the 3Es now!! Why not talk to my replacement in CFNES for suggestions ... so lo and behold, he too, is now sticking his proverbial nose in where it may not belong!!
This should be neither painful nor difficult, let’s not let it be.
Now for the original query, in a perfect world, KIN class may well be the preferred platform for someone new as its propulsion system is most definitely the way to the future. I have heard a rumour however that there are something like 300 OS MESOs awaiting training (??) so time on KIN class may be out of reach for a RegF OS MAR ENG.

 

[Stoker]

Further to this MAR ENG/MESO thing, there was a meeting in Halifax Wednesday afternoon. Among other things, 10 RegF LS were identified for B-ticket "cross training" this summer and meetings continue to look at bringing MESOs over to HAL/IRO class for Cert 1/A ticket training. I looked at the 'suggested' delta course for the RegF stokers and chuckled. First off, NOWHERE in the documentation did I see a stoker's name involved in discussions so (yet, once again!), I stuck my nose in the melee where some figure it doesn't belong!
In 1996, I came over from GATINEAU (steamer) to TORONTO (HAL class), did a 3 week course on equipment, and took about 4 months total to requal a Cert 3 AND get my Duty Tech qual and I will tell you that there is no more "night and day" than steamer to frigate. I am not bragging-this was the expected norm.
These 'hand picked' RegF LS need maybe 3 weeks classroom, a week of famil alongside and I would dare say 4-6 weeks at sea on a dedicated training platform - Hey! - That sounds like what we do for the 3Es now!! Why not talk to my replacement in CFNES for suggestions ... so lo and behold, he too, is now sticking his proverbial nose in where it may not belong!!
This should be neither painful nor difficult, let’s not let it be.
Now for the original query, in a perfect world, KIN class may well be the preferred platform for someone new as its propulsion system is most definitely the way to the future. I have heard a rumour however that there are something like 300 OS MESOs awaiting training (??) so time on KIN class may be out of reach for a RegF OS MAR ENG.

I spent my last 2 weeks fielding calls and quelling rumours about the Cert 2 training course thats starting in 2 weeks. I was surprised at the misconceptions stokers had about how we operate the ships. We are gettinjg 6 guys and they are not exactly handpicked. There are a few volunteer's , but most were voluntold. It will be interesting to see if they all show up for the course or not. They are getting about 2 weeks at sea for the drills and DC phase, the rest will be alongside under a C ticket instructor. This is for the summer right now so we can surge 4 ships and possibily a 5th later. We do have a massive backlog of MESO, but nowhere near the 300 mentioned.
There was quite a discussion on the course content but it was developed by a MSEO and probably will change a bit after the pilot course.

 

[TTopp]

hey guys, i have applied for the Mar Eng Mechs trade and just took my CFAT, i know i have a long ways to go still but iv been trying to read up on post that are in that field just to get more information going in and learn as much as i can. But i find i am having trouble keeping up with all the short forms and what each level means. is there any link or site that can show me the levels of training or what all the short forms mean?
Thanks and i am hoping to be joining the fleet some time soon.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Pardon my ignorance;
What is a 'short form'? (I mean it.... no offence)
TTopp, you can PM me with any specifics and I will do my best.
You are, after all, talking of the best trade in the Navy!!! (That otta get someone's goat!)

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Everytime I see the title: Best Vessel For A New Stoker To Serve On?

I think 'boiling vessel'

Sorry for the highjack and the dull army humour. Just had to get it out so I could stop thinking about it.

Back to your regular broadcast.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Pardon my ignorance;
What is a 'short form'? (I mean it.... no offence)

Abbreviations, acronyms and trade specific arcanum.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Abbreviations, acronyms and trade specific arcanum.

I still don't know what a 'short form' is.....and wtf is a "ARCANUM"

 

[Michael OLeary]

The "short forms" are in yellow (hint, it has nothing to do with forms as documents):

I spent my last 2 weeks fielding calls and quelling rumours about the Cert 2 training course thats starting in 2 weeks. I was surprised at the misconceptions stokers had about how we operate the ships. We are gettinjg 6 guys and they are not exactly handpicked. There are a few volunteer's , but most were voluntold. It will be interesting to see if they all show up for the course or not. They are getting about 2 weeks at sea for the drills and DC phase, the rest will be alongside under a C ticket instructor. This is for the summer right now so we can surge 4 ships and possibily a 5th later. We do have a massive backlog of MESO, but nowhere near the 300 mentioned.
There was quite a discussion on the course content but it was developed by a MSEO and probably will change a bit after the pilot course.

Arcanum implies stuff that only the indoctrinated understand.

 

[TTopp]

haha yea thats about right.