Being an RCMP Auxiliary Constable while in CAF (merged)

[PewPew]

I was the Aux Co ordinator at the local detachment.  At that time, there was a a list of persons who could not be employed as Auxiliary Cst, that list included members of the CF.

The CF isn't worried about the cost if you get injured, they are worried about your not being able to contribute to your primary job if injured.

Fair enough, I'm just wondering the discrimination then of why it's ok to be a volunteer firefighter, volunteer SAR, volunteer RMS, but not volunteer Police.

I think this is just a different situation as I already came here qualified and current.  They had no need to train me.  I managed to get through the process to transfer with no hickup's.  Only hickup now is the CF's end where I need a Ref  :facepalm:

Thanks for you help though

 

[bick]

If you know guys who are Vol Paramedics and FF, use the same ref.  The bit I put in was RCMP policy, not CF.

 

[aesop081]

.  Only hickup now is the CF's end where I need a Ref  :facepalm:

Like i said, i will have a look Monday for you.

That being said, your unit is doing things properly by requiring that a memo be staffed for this. To me, it is just like getting a second job where regulations are clear that you must request permission from your CO. That will cover your a** and the CO's a**. If you write a memo requesting something, your CoC is right in asking you to provide a reference.

Give me a bit Monday/Tuesday to see what i can dig up and hopefully point you in the right direction.

 

[bridges]

Not quite what you're seeking, yet, but related:  RCMP regular members may enrol in the Res F.  This does not confirm, of course, that it can go the other way around.  I also found an internal letter from 2008 requesting permission for someone else in the CF to join the auxiliary constable program; the letter alluded to a DAOD that was supposedly on the way, but no evidence of the DAOD, or of what the answer was at that time.

You'd think the part about primary recall would be key.  RCMP retains primary recall of its regular members, and the CF does the same.  But I've found no indication of auth for CF mbrs to join the RCMP auxiliary force.

Sounds like it'd be a worthwhile way to continue spending some of your free time.  Good luck.

CANFORGEN 108/07 CMP 044/07 041356Z JUN 07
ELIGIBILITY OF RCMP MEMBERS TO SERVE IN THE RESERVES
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. PCO 2007-0215
B. QR AND O 6.01(2)(A)
C. NDA 12(1)



THE PURPOSE OF THIS CANFORGEN IS TO ANNOUNCE CHANGES TO THE RESERVE ENROLMENT POLICY CONTAINED IN QUEENS REGUALTIONS AND ORDERS (QR AND O) AS IT PERTAINS TO MEMBERS OF THE ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE (RCMP)


THROUGH CONSULTATION WITH THE RCMP IT HAS BEEN DEEMED BENEFICIAL TO BOTH ORGANIZATIONS TO WAIVE THE RESTRICTION DENYING RCMP MEMBERS THE OPPORTUNITY OF SERVING WITH THE CANADIAN FORCES IN ALL SUB-COMPONENTS OF THE RESERVE FORCE. IT MUST BE NOTED HOWEVER, THAT TWO CAVEATS REMAIN IN THE EMPLOYMENT OF THESE MEMBERS:


THE RCMP ACT PROHIBITS RCMP MEMBERS FROM ENROLING/TRANSFERRING TO THE CANADIAN FORCES (CF) AS MILITARY POLICE MOSID 00161 OR AS MILITARY POLICE OFFICERS MOSID 00214


IN TIME OF DECLARED EMERGENCY, THE RCMP WILL RETAIN THE AUTHORITY FOR PRIORITY RECALL OF ITS MEMBERS


EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, CFRG IS AUTHORIZED TO PROCESS RCMP MEMBERS FOR ENROLMENT/TRANSFER INTO ANY SUB-COMPONENT OF THE RESERVE FORCE IN ANY MOSID EXCEPT THOSE MENTIONED IN PARA 3

 

[PewPew]

Well I did manage to find a ref in the CFAO's.  I'm going to have to request approval from NDHQ.  Thanks for your help guys, I don't think there's much else out there.  It clearly defines RCMP Auxiliaries.

Cheers,

 

[aesop081]

Well I did manage to find a ref in the CFAO's.  I'm going to have to request approval from NDHQ.  Thanks for your help guys, I don't think there's much else out there.  It clearly defines RCMP Auxiliaries.

Cheers,

Ok, i'll just go back to my normal Mondays then  ;D

 

[bridges]

Well I did manage to find a ref in the CFAO's.  I'm going to have to request approval from NDHQ.  Thanks for your help guys, I don't think there's much else out there.  It clearly defines RCMP Auxiliaries.

Cheers,

That's good news.  Care to share the CFAO # with those who were along for the ride?

 

[mariomike]

Care to share the CFAO # with those who were along for the ride?

CFAO 19-7 -- CIVIL EMPLOYMENT -MILITARY PERSONNEL

"4.    Unless the approval of NDHQ is obtained, no member on full-time
service shall be employed by or serve as a member or auxiliary member of:

    a.  the Royal Canadian Mounted Police;"
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/92807/post-919180.html#msg919180

 

[bridges]

CFAO 19-7 -- CIVIL EMPLOYMENT -MILITARY PERSONNEL

"4.    Unless the approval of NDHQ is obtained, no member on full-time
service shall be employed by or serve as a member or auxiliary member of:

    a.  the Royal Canadian Mounted Police;"
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/92807/post-919180.html#msg919180

Ack; thanks.  I'd be curious to know under what circumstances, if ever, reqs like the OP's are approved.  Likely it varies by the mbr's military employment.

Part-time work in general is not uncommon, like the mbr who was injured in the shooting at the U of A not long ago - he was working as a security guard during off-duty hours.  Part-time work could have pension implications as well.

Anyway - thanks again, mariomike.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Ack; thanks.  I'd be curious to know under what circumstances, if ever, reqs like the OP's are approved.  Likely it varies by the mbr's military employment.

Part-time work in general is not uncommon, like the mbr who was injured in the shooting at the U of A not long ago - he was working as a security guard during off-duty hours.  Part-time work could have pension implications as well.

I asked this question, years ago, when one of my soldiers also was interested in volunteering as an auxiliary policeman.  During an informal chat with a legal officer of my acquaintance I gleaned the following.

It is not so much the liability of the Crown (in the form of DND) for health care, pension, etc if the member was injured during service as a police auxiliary as it is the liability of the member to perform auxiliary police duties should a state of emergency be declared during which he would (could?) be“legally obligated” to serve as an auxiliary police officer regardless of his other employment (or military service).

The RCMP Auxilaries are instituted and governed separately by the individual provinces.  Depending on the legislation and regulations of the province in which an individual is located he could have an obligation to serve (as an auxiliary policeman) during a state of emergency in that province that could be in conflict with his obligation to serve as a member of the military.

The opinion expressed to me was that it would be unlikely that a Regular Force member would receive permission, but it could happen depending on the province ( and the wording of their legislation/regulations) and the organization that the member wished to join.  It might be different for a Reserve member on full-time service (e.g. Class B).  In that case other factors such as the nature of their full-time employment and history with the auxiliary organization may be taken into account.

 

[bridges]

Interesting.  Thanks, Blackadder16.

I wonder if there's a provision somewhere giving NDA-based obligations precedence over those arising from provincial statutes, in the event that they conflict.  I know nothing about auxiliary police services, and don't know whether it'd be worthwhile for such orgs to have members (from the CF) who can't serve on short notice and/or in emergencies.  Anyway, the drive to contribute to one's society through a second kind of uniformed service in off-duty hours is commendable.

 

[PewPew]

It's definitely an interesting scenario.  It's a field I love being in and joined when I was still a Reservist.  If I came across the order while thinking of joining the Aux, I'd second guess the hassle, but I'm not.  I'm fully trained, have been for almost 4 years now, and active.  No one told me no when going through.  It's a tough spot. 

 

[aesop081]

  No one told me no when going through.

That does not make it right.

You are in an easy spot. You know what the orders say. You can't pretend you don't know anymore.

 

[bridges]

Seems like the responsible thing to do would be to submit a req to NDHQ that acknowledges the potential conflict & identifies any mitigating factors in your favour.  Who knows, you may increase your odds of getting a positive answer. 

 

[TCM621]

I knew a lot of guys that were muni reserve constables. I wonder if they are different then RCMP auxiliary officers.

 

[mariomike]

I knew a lot of guys that were muni reserve constables. I wonder if they are different then RCMP auxiliary officers.

I think it is the same policy:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/92807/post-919180.html#msg919180

4.    Unless the approval of NDHQ is obtained, no member on full-time
service shall be employed by or serve as a member or auxiliary member of:

    a.  the Royal Canadian Mounted Police;

    b.  a provincial or municipal police force or any other constabulary
          force;

 

[Eye In The Sky]

IIRC, the OP was PRes when he/she started the Aux police gig, then CTd to Reg Force.  The situation changed when the OP CTd to the Regs and wasn't aware of the CFAO/policy for full time service.

If you read the CFAO its states "no member on full time service";  IMO it would not apply to a Reservist, but once you CT to Regs, different story.  It seems it would, in appearance, apply to a Cl C or B PRes mbr but these things tend to slip thru the cracks in the PRes world, in my experience from both sides of the fence.

 

[TCM621]

IIRC, the OP was PRes when he/she started the Aux police gig, then CTd to Reg Force.  The situation changed when the OP CTd to the Regs and wasn't aware of the CFAO/policy for full time service.

If you read the CFAO its states "no member on full time service";  IMO it would not apply to a Reservist, but once you CT to Regs, different story.  It seems it would, in appearance, apply to a Cl C or B PRes mbr but these things tend to slip thru the cracks in the PRes world, in my experience from both sides of the fence.

I don't know the regs on this but I know a bucket load of cops who are reservists. They are hugely represented in the pres. On the other hand, I have never met an RCMP officer who is a reservist.

 

[mariomike]

On the other hand, I have never met an RCMP officer who is a reservist.

Topic: "RCMP mbrs in the Militia":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/110.0

Topic: "RCMP member a reservist":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/13286.0/nowap.html

Topic: "Special Leave for RCMP Members in the PRes":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/68679/post-645299.html#msg645299

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I don't know the regs on this but I know a bucket load of cops who are reservists. They are hugely represented in the pres. On the other hand, I have never met an RCMP officer who is a reservist.

The applic CFAO was posted earlier in the thread.  I would think full time service would include a Cl B/C Reservist and the CFAO was written 'full time service' to cover "anyone not on Cl A", but for clarity would ask the CoC/NDHQ for the real answer.  Its crystal clear for RegF though.