Battle Honours for Afghanistan

[Haggis]

The following units will be receiving the Theatre Honours (not Battle Honours):

Source, please?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Source, please?

http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2014/05/09/south-west-asia-theatre-honours

 

[Scoobs]

Being in the RCAF and being of Tac Hel background, frankly, if the list provided here is accurate, it amazes me that 400 and 438 Sqns are not on that list.  Last time I checked my personnel (and others from both of these Sqns) participated in Afghanistan with either the Sperwer or in support of the JTF-Afg Air Wing.  I usually remain silent, but not for this slight.  This is unsat (if the list is accurate).  Frankly put, without these two "total force" units, 1 Wg and Tac Hel would not have been able to function.  This is further emphasized when one considers what we did domestically when there was no one else left back in Canada to do it.  A little domestic op called Op PODIUM comes to mind, along with the G8 Conference (largest domestic deployments in Cdn history).  And we did this while we had pers over in Afg.

This better be fixed.

 

[dapaterson]

Being in the RCAF and being of Tac Hel background, frankly, if the list provided here is accurate, it amazes me that 400 and 438 Sqns are not on that list.  Last time I checked my personnel (and others from both of these Sqns) participated in Afghanistan with either the Sperwer or in support of the JTF-Afg Air Wing.  I usually remain silent, but not for this slight.  This is unsat (if the list is accurate).  Frankly put, without these two "total force" units, 1 Wg and Tac Hel would not have been able to function.  This goes for what we did domestically when there was no one else left back in Canada to do it.  A little domestic op called Op PODIUM comes to mind, along with the G8 Conference (largest domestic deployments in Cdn history).  And we did this while we had pers over in Afg.

This better be fixed.

There is a minimum threshold for participation required for the theatre honour.  Depending what O&E games were played along the way, it may be that certain units are not seen has having contributed the requisite minimum number because someone, somewhere, posted Bloggins MMO somewhere else immediately before the deployment, so that other unit is getting credit for his deployment.

Flag the issue through the CoC; if there are mistakes, they will be corrected.  As I recall, a few units were recently granted Boer War honours since, due to historical amalgamations of units, they now cross the thresholds required.  Hopefully, if there's a mistake with 400 and 438 it won't take over a century to correct.

 

[Tibbson]

Source, please?

The list I quoted was directly from an email I recieved from the PMs office, not because I'm special but because I signed up for Public Affairs news releases on the Prime Ministers website.

 

[Haggis]

http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2014/05/09/south-west-asia-theatre-honours

Thanks.  I hadn't thought to check the PM's info machine.

 

[PuckChaser]

Being in the RCAF and being of Tac Hel background, frankly, if the list provided here is accurate, it amazes me that 400 and 438 Sqns are not on that list.  Last time I checked my personnel (and others from both of these Sqns) participated in Afghanistan with either the Sperwer or in support of the JTF-Afg Air Wing.  I usually remain silent, but not for this slight.  This is unsat (if the list is accurate).  Frankly put, without these two "total force" units, 1 Wg and Tac Hel would not have been able to function.  This is further emphasized when one considers what we did domestically when there was no one else left back in Canada to do it.  A little domestic op called Op PODIUM comes to mind, along with the G8 Conference (largest domestic deployments in Cdn history).  And we did this while we had pers over in Afg.

This better be fixed.

I didn't get a CinC commendation because my unit was not in the battle group UIC. Niether did a couple very large enablers. Was I upset? Yep. Did I get over it? Yep, pretty quickly too. At the end of the day, a theatre honour isn't going to change the hard work you put in.

Think of it this way, we don't get Battle/Theatre honours in Sigs. Took us 100 years to get a Royal Banner. Yet we're on every single operation you can name. We don't even have UBIQUE. Not a hill for me to die on to get that recognition.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Interesting that neither 423 nor 443 Sqn were granted the Theatre Honour for "Arabian Sea", despite having been nearly continuously deployed in the region for the past 13 years and in the 2001-2003 period, each Sqn deployed more than their posted strength as part of Helairdets. At one point, I recall that 12 Wing had 12 HELAIRDETs, but generated and deployed 15 Helairdets during that period.

 

[brihard]

So with that having been said, what was (or will) our experience in Afghanistan be called?  Is it correct to refer to it as the Afghan War (although we were not at war with Afghanistan) the Afghanistan Conflict (kinda too mild given events that transpired), Canada's Mission in Afghanistan (not very catchy) or what?  Whats the "name" going to be or what is already accepted?

Most of the vets I know call it the 'Afghan war' or 'The war in Afghanistan'. And I suspect most of us don't give a rat's ass if some hand-wringers in Ottawa want to call it something different.

 

[MilEME09]

Kinda related, I've noticed that for the army its all infantry and armoured units, the sub-note explained why the arty and engineers don't get them, what about CSS elements or medic units how come they don't receive battle honours?

 

[Jungle]

Kinda related, I've noticed that for the army its all infantry and armoured units, the sub-note explained why the arty and engineers don't get them, what about CSS elements or medic units how come they don't receive battle honours?

Because they are not combatant units.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Kinda related, I've noticed that for the army its all infantry and armoured units, the sub-note explained why the arty and engineers don't get them, what about CSS elements or medic units how come they don't receive battle honours?

If it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure that the Infantry would be the first to point out that everything they were able to accomplish was enabled by those people.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Being in the RCAF and being of Tac Hel background, frankly, if the list provided here is accurate, it amazes me that 400 and 438 Sqns are not on that list.  Last time I checked my personnel (and others from both of these Sqns) participated in Afghanistan with either the Sperwer or in support of the JTF-Afg Air Wing.  I usually remain silent, but not for this slight.  This is unsat (if the list is accurate).  Frankly put, without these two "total force" units, 1 Wg and Tac Hel would not have been able to function.  This is further emphasized when one considers what we did domestically when there was no one else left back in Canada to do it.  A little domestic op called Op PODIUM comes to mind, along with the G8 Conference (largest domestic deployments in Cdn history).  And we did this while we had pers over in Afg.

This better be fixed.

Interesting that neither 423 nor 443 Sqn were granted the Theatre Honour for "Arabian Sea", despite having been nearly continuously deployed in the region for the past 13 years and in the 2001-2003 period, each Sqn deployed more than their posted strength as part of Helairdets. At one point, I recall that 12 Wing had 12 HELAIRDETs, but generated and deployed 15 Helairdets during that period.

This is the kind of fallout that happens because the terms of reference for the award of Afghanistan honours was not made clear and distributed to all units which may be eligible. For the First World War, and again for he Second World War and Korea, the terms of reference were published first, and then it was the responsibility of units to demonstrate that they were eligible for the honours they felt were deserving based on their actions and contributions.

Conditions of Award of Battle Honours for The Great War 1914-1919

Second World War Battle Honours (Conditions governing the award of battle honours to regiments of the Canadian Army.)

33-1 Battle Honours - United Nations Operations - Korea 1950-1953

 

[Strike]

Interesting that neither 423 nor 443 Sqn were granted the Theatre Honour for "Arabian Sea", despite having been nearly continuously deployed in the region for the past 13 years and in the 2001-2003 period, each Sqn deployed more than their posted strength as part of Helairdets. At one point, I recall that 12 Wing had 12 HELAIRDETs, but generated and deployed 15 Helairdets during that period.

That was the first thing that came to mind for me as well.  Kind of like giving a battle honour to a combat unit but then telling them it doesn't include the recce element.

 

[medicineman]

Kinda related, I've noticed that for the army its all infantry and armoured units, the sub-note explained why the arty and engineers don't get them, what about CSS elements or medic units how come they don't receive battle honours?

The Medical Branch, much like other elements, are assumed to be there.  There are no unit/Branch colours for Battle Honours to be attached, but a Royal Banner for the Branch/RCMS as we are now.

MM

 

[daftandbarmy]

Here's the 'South West Asia Theatre Honours' list:

http://pm.gc.ca/news/2014/05/09/south-west-asia-theatre-honours

 

[George Wallace]

Here's the 'South West Asia Theatre Honours' list:

http://pm.gc.ca/news/2014/05/09/south-west-asia-theatre-honours

;D

Bottom of previous page; « Reply #121 on: Yesterday at 23:08:42 »

Top of this page; « Reply #125 on: Yesterday at 23:26:36 »

Same link.

;D

 

[Infanteer]

From the Infantry Corps, it looks like the Hasty Ps, the Cape Breton Highlanders and the Royal Newfoundland Regiment missed out - what happened there?

 

[OldTanker]

Cape Breton Highlanders are listed but don't see the other two.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Units of the Canadian Army will be granted the Theatre Honour “Afghanistan” if their cumulative contribution of personnel reached a minimum level of 20 per cent of the effective strength of the originating unit in the geographical area of Afghanistan. - See more at: http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2014/05/09/south-west-asia-theatre-honours#sthash.EtgN8qOj.dpuf

http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2014/05/09/south-west-asia-theatre-honours

Note that the terms of reference given in the backgrounder call for a percentage of unit strength, not a numerical head count. They may have had more people deployed than other units, but if they are a large unit they could still miss the percentage requirement. I have no doubt we'll see some of this revisited too.