Australia will buy F/A18F Super Hornets

[cameron]

Good day to all, I just finished reading my weekly online issue of Janes Air Forces News Briefs (jdw.janes.com).  Australia's government has just announced that they will be purchasing around two dozen Super Hornets.  the John Howard administration said that while Australia remains committed to the Joint Strike Fighter, the decision to order the Super Hornets was to guard against any slippage in the JSF program.  The statement also said that the Australian government had no intention of allowing its fighter and strike capability to be compromised.

I've always marvelled at the difference in the way Canadian and Australian politicians think when it comes to defence.  The two countries are very similar in terms of size and population, with similar sized armed forces.  However, when it comes to giving their fighting men and women the best equipment available, the difference in attitudes is like night and day.  While things are looking up lately (C17, Chinook, CH48) i'm yet to hear anything concrete on future replacements for the CF18, Halifax class frigates, Iroquois class destroyers and Leopard C2 MBT's.  The CF does not even have any attack helicopter capability, a serious deficiency.

Australia's future AAW destroyer is much closer to realization that any replacement for Canada's surface combatants.  Australia has the M1 tank, all i'm hearing about future replacements for the Leo C2 (which are long overdue, never mind it's still a great machine) are rumours and speculation.  Whenever someone on army.ca suggests buying certain types of military hardware, the predictable, and sadly all too often true response is "the government will never go for it, its too expensive." 

Canada has one of the most booming economies in the world right now, yet when it comes to government expenditure, defence always seems to pull one of the shortest straws.  My purpose is not to start an Aussie vs. Canuck flame war (I have no time for such nonsense) but I wish Canadian politicians on both sides of the aisle would adopt the same attitude as their  Australian counterparts, that their military should always be at the cutting edge of technology.  Rant over.

 

[geo]

Heeeey - so we're not perfect... tell us something we don't know.

Things are improving.
The Airforce is getting new kit - mainly what is needed to more the army around - but we're moving ahead - and that's a good thing.  As we get closer to receiving the Ch47s people will start realising that the Chinook without aircover is like a GWagon (or iltis)  travelling on it's own down IED alley... you can do it but it's not recommended.

The Army is receiving new kit, the recruiting system has been shaken up some & the rookies are going thru a lot faster - prospects are promissing.

The Navy???... Yetch!!  Talk of retiring the Resupply vessels & the Destroyers... talk of leaving ships @ the dock during major NATO exercises in OUR water.....
I hear the CF is shopping around for a new service rifle for the Rangers - maybe the rangers can keep the foreigners outa the arctic.

 

[aesop081]

Good day to all, I just finished reading my weekly online issue of Janes Air Forces News Briefs (jdw.janes.com).  Australia's government has just announced that they will be purchasing around two dozen Super Hornets.  the John Howard administration said that while Australia remains committed to the Joint Strike Fighter, the decision to order the Super Hornets was to guard against any slippage in the JSF program.  The statement also said that the Australian government had no intention of allowing its fighter and strike capability to be compromised.

I've always marvelled at the difference in the way Canadian and Australian politicians think when it comes to defence.  The two countries are very similar in terms of size and population, with similar sized armed forces.  However, when it comes to giving their fighting men and women the best equipment available, the difference in attitudes is like night and day.  While things are looking up lately (C17, Chinook, CH48) i'm yet to hear anything concrete on future replacements for the CF18, Halifax class frigates, Iroquois class destroyers and Leopard C2 MBT's.  The CF does not even have any attack helicopter capability, a serious deficiency.

Australia's future AAW destroyer is much closer to realization that any replacement for Canada's surface combatants.  Australia has the M1 tank, all i'm hearing about future replacements for the Leo C2 (which are long overdue, never mind it's still a great machine) are rumours and speculation.  Whenever someone on army.ca suggests buying certain types of military hardware, the predictable, and sadly all too often true response is "the government will never go for it, its too expensive."   

Canada has one of the most booming economies in the world right now, yet when it comes to government expenditure, defence always seems to pull one of the shortest straws.  My purpose is not to start an Aussie vs. Canuck flame war (I have no time for such nonsense) but I wish Canadian politicians on both sides of the aisle would adopt the same attitude as their  Australian counterparts, that their military should always be at the cutting edge of technology.  Rant over.

Regional politics affect Australia in different ways than Canada.  Australia is a regional power, we are not.

As far as the F/A-18F, they will replace the F-111C that the RAAF uses.  The RAAF will continue to use its original F/A-18 A/B just like we are.

 

[CrazyCanuck]

...I've always marvelled at the difference in the way Canadian and Australian politicians think when it comes to defence.  The two countries are very similar in terms of size and population, with similar sized armed forces...

Reasons that Australia differs from Canada

1) The US is not their next door neighbor
2) Nations that they may not have the best relationships with are their next door neighbors
3) General population does not believe that they are impervious to attack because of their self-perceived high moral standing on the world stage
4) Are not a member of the world's most powerful (and laziest) military alliance

... feel free to add more

 

[Trooper Hale]

I think boater pretty well hit it on the head. We'r a little bit more out on a limb then you guys. In the middle of asia, with our closest friend being the military might of New Zealand, we have to look after a up to date Defence force. Especially with ships and fighters.
In a war we'd still be relying on the US and the UK to bail us out.

 

[1feral1]

Some regional countries joke and call us the Sheriff, ha!

Serioulsy though, we have Indonesia to the north (and not far either), that the largest muslim country with about 280,000,000 people spread out over 13,000 islands with over 16,000 islands in their country. Australia has the population Canada had in 1970 (about 20,000,000 people) with a Defence Force about the same as Canada. Australia has roughly the same land mass as the lower 48 states of the USA, only slightly smaller. Lots of coastline (over 40,000km worth), which is at the best of times, quite open to illegal fishing, people smuggling, and yes drugs and other nasty things.

Indonesia has problems and a very radical islamic front which is quite popular and it is growing in popularity. However Indonesia does have its internal problems, so their Army and Police are always busy. Its a third world country, full of poverty, lack of basic needs, human rights, and totally full of corruption at all levels.

Then there is PNG (thats another story), The Solomons, Timor L'este (increasing unrest), and other numerous regional nations great and small. Many are poor island nations, and with poverty comes unrest and radical behaviour, thats human nature. We do have our fingers in the pie. We have to, as it assists in keeping the region sound.

With all these regional issues, then we have the international issues too. Afghanistan, and Iraq, and supporting it. The RAN (new ships), RAAF (new C17s and C130Js) and Army (new M1 tanks - no tanks in the MEAO) are all in it. Its difficult to man too, as we are small in numbers, but again it has to be done, and this will continue. Many here on on their 3rd tour since 2003, and many possibly including myself will be back again.

The people of Australia look at the Defence Force differently compaired to Canada. Its a cultural thing, they feel good about us. Being a small populated nation, many have served or have family that have served, so they identify easily with the Diggers, Gallipoli, ANZAC day, etc. I have seen much more decent pride for the Military Forces and patriotism in Australia on my first ANZAC Day in Sydney then I did in my entire pervious life in Canada. I was blown away by it. Sure, we have our anti war and government crowd, but the perception by the general population is different, way different.

We need professional well trained personnel (hint - Australia is openly recruitng for 'the right stuff'  from Canada and other countries - think you got it? Try www.defencejobs.gov.au), and good tested and proven kit. New and modern to cope with the increasing dangerous and changing times in the Australasian region. If not, we become weak, and are seen as weak, and we ourselves become an easy target. That will not happen. We as a nation, have learned from the past. We are isolated, and have done the hard yards by ourselves since 1778. We have been deliberately attacked in air raids and by sea by the Japanese, and have given 10's of thousands of young Australian lives in the region since 1942, to keep the peace. This increased 'eternal vigilence' will continue without exception. Without it, we fail as a nation, and that will never happen.

Crikey, I feel like some perverted propaganda tool, ha!

Regards,

Wes

 

[geo]

+1 WES

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Growing up in Canada, I was taught that Australia was kind of like Canada's 'little brother': a lot like us, but a little less developed (which in retrospect is a little paternalistic, but probably more-or-less accurate).  In her <a href="http://www.amazon.ca/Paris-1919-Months-Changed-World/dp/0375760520/ref=pd_ka_1/701-5349192-7626755?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173886911&sr=8-1">Paris 1919</a> book, Margaret MacMillan described Canada's (limited) role in the Versailles Treaty negotiations as kind of like 'the senior hall monitor of the Commonweath nations' (I don't have the book in front of me, so I am paraphrasing).  The times, I fear, are a changin' (if they haven't already).

 

[MarkOttawa]

And thinking about the F-22 (text subscriber only).

F-35 Commitment Protected as Australia Goes for Super Hornets (Printed headline: Super Stopgap)
AW&ST, March 12

Australia will maintain its full requirement for F-35 Lightning II fighters even as it confirms a plan to buy Boeing F/A-18F Super Hornets that previously looked likely to rob the Lockheed Martin aircraft of funding.

The government has unexpectedly--and unusually--stepped in with A$6 billion ($4.6 billion) of supplementary funding for the 24 Super Hornets, which will be bought as temporary replacements for F-111 strike bombers now scheduled for retirement in 2010.

The extra money means that neither the requirement for up to 100 F-35s nor any other project in Australia's already challenging defense procurement plan will have to make room for the Boeing aircraft.

Australia has been pushed into a stopgap Super Hornet purchase because the big old F-111s are getting harder to maintain and increasingly dangerous to fly, forcing their retirement date to slide to the left, while the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program's deliveries of Lightnings as F-111 replacements look increasingly likely to slide to the right...

LIKE THE AUSTRALIAN order for Boeing C-17 Globemasters that was rushed through last year and has pleased Canberra with on-time, on-budget contractor performance, the sudden Super Hornet deal envisions stock-standard aircraft identical to those moving down the production line for the U.S. military [emphasis added].

The A$6 billion budgeted for the project will be spent over 10 years, covering the purchase price, initial support and upfront training.

That looks like an extraordinarily costly stopgap--equivalent to A$250 million ($194 million) per aircraft--but the government's budget is in excellent shape [empasis added], with no net debt on its books and with cash piling up from continuing surpluses.

Even more unusual for a western democracy, the Liberal-National government's combat aircraft plans are controversial not because they are supposedly extravagant but because critics say the country should be buying better aircraft, specifically Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptors [emphasis added]. Defense pundits, newspaper columnists and even the nominally socialist Labor Party opposition are pushing for Raptors instead of Lightnings...

The U.S. said last month that under current policy it could not supply the Raptor to Australia, but since Canberra has never actually asked for the aircraft it seems unlikely that the Pentagon has gone to the trouble of formally assessing the stealth fighter's eligibility for such a sale.

Moreover, an order for 50 or 60 Raptors from a close ally might be a welcome way to extend Lockheed Martin's production run and drive down costs for repeat orders that the U.S. Air Force would itself like to place.

Defending the Super Hornet against criticism that it wasn't good enough, Nelson's announcement of the acquisition cited an Aviation Week & Space Technology report that revealed the ability of the aircraft's sensor package to electronically attack enemy radars through its own Raytheon APG-79 active electronically scanned array radar (AW&ST Feb. 26, p. 24)...

Mark
Ottawa

 

[cobbler]

(hint - Australia is openly recruitng for 'the right stuff'  from Canada and other countries - think you got it? Try www.defencejobs.gov.au),

Especially if you are a Submariner, have some fun around Asia in a Collins.

http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/default.asp?p=1108

 

[Trooper Hale]

Especially if you are a Submariner, have some fun around Asia in a Collins.

Yeah, you can spend months on end sitting in various ports around the world, waiting for someone to fix the bloody things!

Seriously though, join the ADF, its a hoot!