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Australia to buy P-8A Poseidon - News.com

h3tacco

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"Mission systems include computing and display systems with dual 61cm (24in) screens at five operator stations - two acoustic stations, one non-acoustic station, one tactical co-ordination and one navigation and communications station. The P-8A stations will be completely interchangeable with respect to data. "With the P-8A, an operator can sit at any of the five stations and operate any system," says Sutorius."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/cutaway-p-8a-poseidon-a-boeing-with-boost-of-bravado-340955/

Not sure if this info is still correct but it sounds like two ACSO equivalents and three AES Op equivalents (1 dry and two wet). 
 

dimsum

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Roll-out of first RAAF P-8, with 11 Sqn insignia.  It looks shiny.

The first of twelve Australian P-8A Poseidon aircraft has been unveiled by Boeing at a roll-out ceremony in Seattle, Washington State, USA on September 27.

Chief of Air Force, Air Marshal Leo Davies, attended the ceremony and accepted into service the Royal Australian Air Force’s newest aircraft.

“It is a privilege to accept the first Australian P-8A Poseidon aircraft, said CAF AIRMSHL Davies.

“The P-8A is the latest in a pedigree of Boeing aircraft that have provided important and significant operational capability to Australia. This history includes the C-17A Globemaster, E-7A Wedgetail, F/A-18 Classic Hornet, F/A-18F Super Hornet, Helicopter Aircrew Training System and in the near future E/A-18G Growler.” CAF said.

Built from the ground up as a military aircraft, the P-8A is based on the proven commercial designs of Boeing’s 737-800 fuselage, but is substantially structurally modified to include a weapons bay, under wing and under fuselage hard points for weapons, as well as increased strengthening to allow for continued low level operations and high angle of bank turns.

Director Maritime Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance and Response Transition Office, GPCAPT Roger McCutcheon, said the P-8A was a fundamental element of Australia’s future maritime patrol and response strategy in replacing the current AP-3C Orion fleet - due for withdrawal in 2018-19.

“Over the next three years the P-8A will replace our current fleet of AP-3C Orion aircraft currently based at RAAF Base Edinburgh, said GPCAPT McCutcheon.

The first aircraft will arrive in Australia on 15 November 2016, with the remaining 11 aircraft to be delivered by March 2020.”

Air Force aircrew and maintenance personnel have been busy training for the arrival of the P-8A since early 2015 - working side by side with the US Navy at Naval Air Station Jacksonville, Florida. The first P-8A Australian pilot flew a four-hour sortie around the Air Station on 14 April 2015.

CAF AIRMSHL Davies said that close cooperation with the US Navy to develop mission, system and training requirements for the P-8A was crucial and has helped strengthen an already close relationship.

“Speaking to my team today, it is obvious they have been the recipients of some of the best training in the world from the US Navy,” said CAF AIRMSHL Davies.

“The bilateral cooperative program for the P-8A between Australia and the United States has been very successful. It is now the model to which our other Air Force projects must aspire.”

“The passion, pride and dedication of the all the Boeing team is evident in every aircraft produced,said CAF AIRMSHL Davies.

“I have no doubt that the aircraft Boeing has proudly built here today, along with the collaborative input from both Australia and the United States, will serve our nation with consummate success. I congratulate Boeing on this significant occasion and I thank you for all for your work.”

For Boeing Mechanic Paul Lingenfelter - a Washington State native whose work on Sonobuoy structure rake installations directly resulted in zero manufacturing defects and improved time management for the P-8 program - CAF AIRMSHL Davieshad a more personal message.

“Paul you are a great asset to the P-8A program and I thank you for your work, but sorry mate - your aircraft is coming with me.”

http://www.airforce.gov.au/News/Roll-out-of-first-Australian-P-8A-Poseidon/?RAAF-/A8kQtTo3eUwo8X758YBvOig7r5XTABm

Pics on their FB page:  https://www.facebook.com/RoyalAustralianAirForce/posts/10154210405742639
 

CBH99

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Question for you Eye,

Does the P8 represent a huge leap in capability to what our currently upgraded Aurora fleet can do?

Obviously the air-frames are newer, and perhaps that alone is reason to look at replacing our Aurora fleet with the P8.  But in terms of the capability of our recently modernized Aurora, does the P8 offer something that we can't currently do?  (Honest question, and anybody else who is an actual SME like Eye is, feel free to chime in.)


 

Eye In The Sky

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I'd have to be honest;  while I've been on/in a USN P-8 before, I didn't see her in action so can't comment with any knowledge on the aircraft mission caps/lims.  I heard some neat things about their radar, I heard some things about bugs they are working out (nothing surprising, new fleet and all).  I heard its a gas pig down low compared to turbo-prop, but...there are arguments on both sides of that.  Quicker to get ONSTA, but not able to remain ONSTA...either way, you have a max weight for what you can carry in your fuel tanks.

And...if I did know any of the caps and lims compared to the Aurora...I wouldn't be able to say on here anyways.  ;)  I've done ops and exercises with them but they keep their hand close to their chest.  I'd have to bow to the front enders (pilots, fight engineers) to speak with knowledge on airframe and engine stuff.

Having said that...with newer aircraft, I'd expect better serviceability rates on the airframe, engines etc.  But...they aren't replacing 1 for 1 with the Orion fleet so...less airframes on the ramp to start off with.

P-8 stuff:  http://www.boeing.com/defense/maritime-surveillance/p-8-poseidon/index.page#/facts and http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/mma/
P-8 Quick Facts

- For the P-8, Boeing uses a first-in-industry in-line production system that leverages the best of Boeing Commercial and Boeing Defense for development and production.
- The P-8 can fly up to 41,000 feet and travel up to 490 knots.
- P-8 offers higher reliability – the 737 has a 99.8 percent dispatch rate, with more than 4,000 aircraft flying, and 6,600+ orders.
- The P-8 is engineered for 25 years/25,000 hours in the harshest maritime flight regimes, including extended operations in icing environments.
- The P-8 can fly in all flight regimes, and can self-deploy up to 4,500 miles from base without refueling.
- Dual CFM-56B commercial engines each provide 27,000 pounds of thrust, greatly enhancing climb and flight characteristics over turboprop equipped aircraft.  (I don't buy this down low and slow where most ASW is likely to happen...but they appear to be spending money on GPS search and kills stores to negate the low/slow time)
- Each engine is equipped with a 180KVA engine driven generator.  Combined with the 90KVA commercial APU, this provides 450KVA of power. P-8 possesses significant growth capacity for equipment with excess onboard power and cooling capacity.
- P-8 has twice the sonobuoy processing capability and can carry 30 percent more sonobuoys than any maritime patrol and reconnaissance aircraft currently flying.  (AFIAK, they have the same acoustic suite as the modernized Aurora)
- P-8 has the ability to control unmanned air vehicles (level 2 control-receive) to extend sensor reach.
- P-8 offers commonality with 737 fleet and other military platforms that use the 737 airframe.

Block 3 Aurora stuff:  http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/aircraft-current/cp-140.page

Maximum speed 750 kilometres per hour (405 knots) 

Range  7,400 kilometres

Endurance  12 hours, with routine planning of 10 to 11 hours. The Aurora has, however, remained airborne for up to 17 hours


I notice its hard to find any info on endurance for the P-8 but...in general I'd say they can be quicker to get to a spot, but can't hang out there as long.
 

dimsum

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CBH99 said:
Question for you Eye,

Does the P8 represent a huge leap in capability to what our currently upgraded Aurora fleet can do?

Obviously the air-frames are newer, and perhaps that alone is reason to look at replacing our Aurora fleet with the P8.  But in terms of the capability of our recently modernized Aurora, does the P8 offer something that we can't currently do?  (Honest question, and anybody else who is an actual SME like Eye is, feel free to chime in.)

Unless they somehow fixed the lag (however little) in thrust in a turbofan, I'd personally feel better zipping around at low level with turboprops.

Eye In The Sky said:
I'm anxiously awaiting the GoC announcement that we are getting some  ;D

:rofl:
 

Sub_Guy

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Dimsum said:
Unless they somehow fixed the lag (however little) in thrust in a turbofan, I'd personally feel better zipping around at low level with turboprops.

Isn't the USN planning on flying ASW missions at 1,500+?




 

dimsum

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Dolphin_Hunter said:
Isn't the USN planning on flying ASW missions at 1,500+?

Maybe?  I guess without MAD, there's no real point going low.
 

BurmaShave

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Dimsum said:
Maybe?  I guess without MAD, there's no real point going low.

Do you have to be low to deploy sonobuoys? Does the P-8 even have sonobuoys? (I don't know jack about ASW)
 

DonaldMcL

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BurmaShave said:
Do you have to be low to deploy sonobuoys? Does the P-8 even have sonobuoys? (I don't know jack about ASW)

MAD aside, being down low is really only useful for knowing where the sonobuoys actually land. Shorter fall = greater accuracy. If you have buoys that reported back their GPS position... you could fly must higher and more comfortably. I assume the P8 is using the "new" GPS buoys.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Dolphin_Hunter said:
Isn't the USN planning on flying ASW missions at 1,500+?

I recall reading something about GPS fish and stuff like that, being dropped (deployed?) from altitude.  Not idea where that is at currently or headed in the future.

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2014/12/p8-high-altitude.html
 

Eye In The Sky

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Dimsum said:
Maybe?  I guess without MAD, there's no real point going low.

IIRC they were working on MAD "UAVs" being dropped from the plane/controlled from the plane or a surface asset.  :dunno:

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2015/01/bae-subhunting-drone.html
 

Eye In The Sky

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BobSlob said:
MAD aside, being down low is really only useful for knowing where the sonobuoys actually land. Shorter fall = greater accuracy. If you have buoys that reported back their GPS position... you could fly must higher and more comfortably. I assume the P8 is using the "new" GPS buoys.

True for ASW...but I know the P-8s guys were doing some low level "VIS-ID" work in the obvious area after JW last year and were down at 200' in the muck like we were and recall a comment about gas guzzling or something along that line.  :nod: 

MAD...always a conversation piece on its worth.  I did one trip out of Sig on a SSN that convinced me 100% MAD is worth its weight.  Always nicer to have 1 extra tool than to be short one...
 

Eye In The Sky

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CBH99 said:
Obviously the air-frames are newer, and perhaps that alone is reason to look at replacing our Aurora fleet with the P8. 

In all honesty, I doubt we'll see a P8 at any RCAF Sqn other than to pay a visit.  Whatever replaces the Aurora, I suspect I'll be CRA when it happens.  Not sure about the current CAS, but the one who brought us new mess kits and leather jackets didn't strike me as an individual that was too concerned about LRPA replacement. 
 

DonaldMcL

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Eye In The Sky said:
In all honesty, I doubt we'll see a P8 at any RCAF Sqn other than to pay a visit.  Whatever replaces the Aurora, I suspect I'll be CRA when it happens.  Not sure about the current CAS, but the one who brought us new mess kits and leather jackets didn't strike me as an individual that was too concerned about LRPA replacement.

My guess... a Bombardier bail-out that'll come with years upon years of delays. But hey, it's made in QueCanada!
 

Eye In The Sky

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BobSlob said:
My guess... a Bombardier bail-out that'll come with years upon years of delays. But hey, it's made in QueCanada!

They'll just use the same process at the Cyclone;  you know...streamlined and such.  ;D

 

Colin Parkinson

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Eye In The Sky said:
In all honesty, I doubt we'll see a P8 at any RCAF Sqn other than to pay a visit.  Whatever replaces the Aurora, I suspect I'll be CRA when it happens.  Not sure about the current CAS, but the one who brought us new mess kits and leather jackets didn't strike me as an individual that was too concerned about LRPA replacement.

Are there any service centres who repair 737's in Canada? We might not benefit from the airframe build, but possibly service contracts?
 
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