Attn: Veterans/survivors of veterans

[284_226]

First, a little background.

Some of you may be familiar with the New Veterans Charter - http://www2.parl.gc.ca/content/hoc/Bills/381/Government/C-45/C-45_4/C-45_4.PDF - which came into force on April 1, 2006.  Part 4 of the New Veterans Charter is a new provision for Health Benefits (Section 66), alluding to the Public Service Health Care Plan (PSHCP).

Section 66 subsection (2) reads:

(2) A member, a veteran or a member’s or a veteran’s survivor may elect to participate in a group insurance program referred to in subsection (1) if they meet the prescribed eligibility requirements.

Unfortunately, the Veterans Charter does not spell out the "prescribed eligibility requirements".

However, section 66 refers to Treasury Board as being the approval authority for all terms and conditions in respect of the group insurance program.

On the Treasury Board website at http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/hr-rh/bp-rasp/benefits-avantages/hcp-rss/hcp-rss_e.asp, there is a "New Public Service Health Care Plan Directive (Effective April 1, 2006)".  If one follows that link, it describes the new PSHCP.  On that page, there is an "Eligibility" link (http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/TB_862/pshcpd-drssfp/pshcpd-drssfp03_e.asp).  If one goes there, it states:

III – Pensioners

  1. Any person in receipt of an ongoing recognised pension, survivor's or children's benefit pursuant to an Act identified in Schedule IV, as amended from time to time by the Treasury Board of Canada, is eligible to join or to continue coverage under the PSHCP when their pension becomes payable (except those persons who immediately prior to retirement were employed by a non-participating organisation on or after the specified date as identified in Schedule II of this Plan Document).
  2. Any individual who is a member of the VAC client group as defined in Schedule III is eligible to join the Plan.

If one looks to the left of the webpage, there is a link to "Schedule III" (http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/TB_862/pshcpd-drssfp/pshcpd-drssfp21_e.asp).

At Schedule III, it states:

Schedule III - Designated Persons, Boards and Agencies

The following persons, boards and agencies as amended from time to time by the Treasury Board of Canada were designated by Treasury Board of Canada, on the date shown, as being eligible to join the Plan:

(...)

VI) Effective April 1, 2006

- Former members of the Canadian Forces (CF Veterans) who have been approved for benefits under the Service Income Security Insurance Plan Long Term Disability (SISIP LTD) who do not otherwise have PSHCP;
- Veterans of the Canadian Forces (CF) with a rehabilitation need that is service related, identified by Veterans' Affairs Canada (VAC), who do not otherwise have post-release PSHCP eligibility;
- Survivors* of veterans and members of the Canadian Forces who have died as a result of military service when the survivors do not otherwise have PSHCP eligibility.

*as defined in the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Act

Now, more about the problem.  My mother falls into the last group - my father passed away in 2001 as a result of his military service, and VAC awarded a 100% disability pension (nearly a year after his death, due to the length of the appeal process).  My mother now receives the VAC survivor benefit. 

When the New Veterans Charter came into force last April, I encouraged my mother to apply for the PSHCP coverage.  In June 2006, she received a letter from VAC stating the following:

Survivors of CF members and Veterans are eligible to enrol in the PSHCP through VAC if:

- the CF member or Veteran died as a result of military service on or after April 1, 2006, the date the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Act came into force, and the survivor does not otherwise have PSHCP eligibility.

Unfortunately, in your particular case, you do not meet the criteria mentioned above and your application for the PSHCP cannot be approved.

Several phone calls to VAC have failed to get them to move from their stance that survivors are not eligible for coverage unless the member died after April 1, 2006 - despite the fact that there's nothing in the legislation mentioning this.  I also pointed out that had the authors of the legislation intended to exclude members who died prior to April 1, 2006, they would have included a clause such as was included in Section 6 of the New Charter.  Section 6 restricts eligibility to Rehab services, vocational assistance and financial benefits, which is Part 2 of the Charter.  Specifically:

6. This Part does not apply in respect of a physical or a mental health problem that resulted primarily from
(a) service in the Canadian Forces on or before April 1, 1947; or
(b) service in the Korean War, as that term is defined in subsection 3(1) of the Pension Act.

Right now, there are two Members of Parliament that are inquiring into this issue with the Minister of Veterans Affairs.  I've chosen not to seek assistance from the Legion for personal reasons.

If you're a veteran or survivor in one of the groups listed at Schedule III of the PSHCP Directive, and you're not already covered under the Public Service Health Care Plan, it certainly appears that you're eligible for PSHCP coverage.  Bear in mind that under the New Veterans Charter, "Canadian Forces" is defined as "the armed forces referred to in section 14 of the National Defence Act, and includes any predecessor naval, army or air forces of Canada or Newfoundland".

I'm not seeking any personal information from anyone, nor am I representing any person or group.  I just thought I'd pass this information along so that anyone who may have been previously turned down for PSHCP coverage, or was unaware that they were eligible for it can take the opportunity to call VAC and confirm their coverage eligibility.  If you fit into the groups above, yet VAC insists that you're ineligible because of the 1 April 2006 criteria, you can then get in contact with your Member of Parliament and have the situation addressed.  I suspect there's a significant number of eligible people out there, and the more of you that press the issue, the faster VAC will address it - or one would hope.

 

[Sandy Skipton]

Are you aware of FSNA ( Federal Superannuates National Association, to protect and enhance your pensioner's benefits)  www.FSNA.com
This may be a topic that they would be interested in looking into since one of their items is "To access individual help on matters related to your pension, health and dental insurance and other issues facing seniors"

I hope this part of The Veterans Charter is looked into, as it may be one of the corrections that should be made to a new charter...

 

[284_226]

Are you aware of FSNA ( Federal Superannuates National Association, to protect and enhance your pensioner's benefits)  www.FSNA.com
This may be a topic that they would be interested in looking into since one of their items is "To access individual help on matters related to your pension, health and dental insurance and other issues facing seniors"

I had heard of them, but hadn't realized their scope included health insurance - thanks for the tip.  I've called the local Health Benefits Officer and left a voicemail.  Should be interesting to see if they're aware of the situation.  The two MPs I've contacted so far agree 100%, the PSHCP should be available to the groups listed in the Treasury Board Directive.

I hope this part of The Veterans Charter is looked into, as it may be one of the corrections that should be made to a new charter...

Yes, it does appear that there are quite a few areas requiring tweaking in the existing Charter....

 

[284_226]

Update: 

My phone call to the local FSNA Health Benefits Liaison Officer was returned today - by their assistant.  After explaining the situation to her, I listened to her madly flipping pages, and telling me that VAC has it right.  I asked what she was looking at for a reference, and she informed me that she was looking at the 2003 printed version of the PSHCP guide.  I explained (again) that the eligibility arose from the April 2006 changes in the New Veterans Charter.

She then said she was afraid she couldn't be of any more help and wished me luck with my inquiries made through the MPs...

A phone call to the Treasury Board Secretariat didn't get anywhere either, despite the fact that the PSHCP Directive is from TBS themselves.  They told me they don't do interpretations, and that it's Veterans Affairs that does that.

Guess I'll have to wait and see how the inquiries raised by the MPs to the Minister of Veterans Affairs pan out.

Bureaucracy at its finest...  :brickwall:

 

[284_226]

Update:

I just got a call from Peter Stoffer, the MP for the Shearwater area.  He made inquiries with VAC and the Minister of Veterans Affairs office regarding my mother's situation with regards to the denied PSHCP coverage.

He informed me that he was told exactly the same thing we've been told - that the interpretation of the New Veterans Charter being used by VAC is that benefits under the New Charter do not apply to members who died or were injured prior to the implementation date, which was 1 April 2006.  He asked them to show him the applicable part of the legislation that limits benefits only to those after the implementation date, and didn't get an answer other than "That's our interpretation".  VAC appears to be of the opinion that nothing in the New Charter applies to affected members prior to the implementation date, despite the presence of the clause in Section 6 concerning exclusions of certain members (Korea, and pre-1947 service) to Rehab services.  That clause is completely superfluous if none of the Charter applies to anyone before 1 April 2006, so one would think someone with common sense would look at that and say that the Charter does have application to members killed or injured prior to the implementation date.  Unless, of course, VAC is in the habit of putting completely useless and superfluous clauses in their legislation 

Mr. Stoffer advised me to write directly to the MND, cc: to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, and confront them with the problem.  He's absolutely baffled at VAC's response.  If writing to the responsible ministers doesn't obtain results, he's offered to help bring it to the media.

Absolutely boggling, it is...

 

[the 48th regulator]

So wouldn't your mother be "Grandfathered" , for use fo a better term, under the old system?

I know I am, as my family with regards to my claims.

dileas

tess

 

[HItorMiss]

Sounds like something you miht get intrested in Tess?

Keep me posted

 

[284_226]

So wouldn't your mother be "Grandfathered" , for use fo a better term, under the old system?

I know I am, as my family with regards to my claims.

Under what criteria were you eligible for PSHCP coverage as of your release date?

My father had service from 1951-1956 - and the PSHCP didn't exist then, nor would he have had a pension or disability which would have rendered him eligible after his release, even if it had existed.

The New Veterans Charter introduced PSHCP coverage for those who weren't otherwise eligible for coverage.

 

[the 48th regulator]

So your father collected no pension via VAC?

dileas

tess

 

[284_226]

So your father collected no pension via VAC?

Yes, he did - he applied in Sept '01 (when we found out he was suffering from asbestosis), died in Oct '01, and when the application/appeal process was concluded in April '02, he was awarded a 100% disability pension.  That also resulted in my mother getting a Survivor benefit, backdated to the application date, and she also received my father's benefit for one year after his death.

VAC is claiming that since his death occurred prior to 1 April 06, the implementation date of the New Charter, that none of the benefits associated with the Charter apply to him or my mother - despite what the TBS/PSHCP Directive website says.

 

[the 48th regulator]

So your mother continues, after the year, to collect the monthly amount awarded to your father?

dileas

tess

 

[284_226]

So your mother continues, after the year, to collect the monthly amount awarded to your father?

Nope, his benefit ceased one year after his death.  She was eligible (and continues to receive) the Survivor Benefit as of the date of his death.

 

[the 48th regulator]

The Survivors benefit is based on the amount given to your father, correct.  Now if you do not mind me asking, your father received 100%.  Of that amount, what would your mothers percentage be?

dileas

tess

 

[284_226]

The Survivors benefit is based on the amount given to your father, correct.  Now if you do not mind me asking, your father received 100%.  Of that amount, what would your mothers percentage be?

I'll correct myself here.  As of the date of his death, she receives the pensioner's benefit for one year, and receives her spousal amount for one year.  After one year, the member's pension and spousal rate ceases and the Survivor Benefit takes over.  Since his disability pension was assessed at >48% disability, the Survivor Benefit is at the full rate - which is 75% of the pensioner's rate.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Ok,

So let me put this all together.  When your father was living, he collected a pension at %100.  He carried a card like this;

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=services/identcard/card

Which allowed him to receive compensation, and treatment for the awarded conditions.  AT 100 percent I am also sure he was awarded the VIP program.

At this time your mother collected only a certain portion based on her being a spouse.  Based on this chart they would have received as follows.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/SUB.CFM?source=forces/disa#rates

Rate   Disability         Spouse
          Pension 
5%     $108.57             $27.14
100% $2,171.32       $542.83

At no time did she receive coverage under his VIP medical coverage, except for certain services (grounds keeping. home maintenance etc).

Since your fathers passing, according to your post, your mother now collects %75, which would equate to  $1628.29

Now I do not want to sound like a beurocrat, however, the new veterans charter is intended to award compensation to those claims placed after the April 1st 2006 date.  Your father had already passed on by then.  If your mother were to achieve victory, then every veterans dependant has a case to go after VAC for the same reasons.  This would now change the budget intended for Veterans and the support of their family, to solely a welfare project to Dependants.

As callous as this sounds, if in all this time your mother did not have an insurance policy to care for her, then I suggest you help her out by going here.

Blue Cross Canada

Your aggressive efforts to finding an answer you wish was there, would be better placed in helping her now.  You are just aggravating her more, by promising empty benefits that are not there, or intended for her.


Those are my two cents, that is from a Veteran who already has to wait to get the benefits as it is without people bogging the system with pipedreams.

dileas

tess

 

[284_226]

Ok,

So let me put this all together.  When your father was living, he collected a pension at %100.  He carried a card like this;

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=services/identcard/card

Well, he would have - had he not died before the pension was granted.

Which allowed him to receive compensation, and treatment for the awarded conditions.  AT 100 percent I am also sure he was awarded the VIP program.

Again, he would have been eligible for the VIP program - had he been alive at the time the pension was granted.  Since he was not in receipt of the VIP benefits on the date of his death, he (and consequently, my mother) never gained eligibility for VIP benefits.

At this time your mother collected only a certain portion based on her being a spouse.  Based on this chart they would have received as follows.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/SUB.CFM?source=forces/disa#rates

Rate  Disability        Spouse
          Pension 
5%    $108.57            $27.14
100% $2,171.32      $542.83

At no time did she receive coverage under his VIP medical coverage, except for certain services (grounds keeping. home maintenance etc).

Correct, although I think you're confusing two separate programs.  Neither my father nor mother were ever in receipt of VIP benefits (which includes the services listed at http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=services/vip#what).  The medical coverage I speak of is the "Health Benefits" provisions under the New Veterans Charter, specifically the PSHCP.

Since your fathers passing, according to your post, your mother now collects %75, which would equate to  $1628.29

Correct.

Now I do not want to sound like a beurocrat, however, the new veterans charter is intended to award compensation to those claims placed after the April 1st 2006 date.

Then I'll ask you the same question I posed to VAC - Can you show me where it says that is the intent of the New Veterans Charter? 

If the intent was to limit benefits under the New Charter to those who were injured/killed after the April 1 2006, then why was it necessary to include a clause in the New Charter under Section 6 which specifically denies Rehab benefits to those who served in Korea, or those who served before April 1, 1947?

Your father had already passed on by then.  If your mother were to achieve victory, then every veterans dependant has a case to go after VAC for the same reasons.  This would now change the budget intended for Veterans and the support of their family, to solely a welfare project to Dependants.

I have to disagree.  If you read the legislation closely, only those veterans (and by extension, survivors) who were injured or died directly as a result of military duty are eligible for the benefits under the New Charter.  Take a look at the "Eligibility" clauses in the New Veterans Charter at http://www2.parl.gc.ca/content/hoc/Bills/381/Government/C-45/C-45_4/C-45_4.PDF, specifically Section 66(2).  Then take a look at Schedule 3 of the PSHCP Directive at http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/TB_862/pshcpd-drssfp/pshcpd-drssfp21_e.asp, specifically where it says

The following persons, boards and agencies as amended from time to time by the Treasury Board of Canada were designated by Treasury Board of Canada, on the date shown, as being eligible to join the Plan:

(...)

VI) Effective April 1, 2006

- Former members of the Canadian Forces (CF Veterans) who have been approved for benefits under the Service Income Security Insurance Plan Long Term Disability (SISIP LTD) who do not otherwise have PSHCP;
- Veterans of the Canadian Forces (CF) with a rehabilitation need that is service related, identified by Veterans' Affairs Canada (VAC), who do not otherwise have post-release PSHCP eligibility;
- Survivors* of veterans and members of the Canadian Forces who have died as a result of military service when the survivors do not otherwise have PSHCP eligibility.

As callous as this sounds, if in all this time your mother did not have an insurance policy to care for her, then I suggest you help her out by going here.

Blue Cross Canada

Your aggressive efforts to finding an answer you wish was there, would be better placed in helping her now.  You are just aggravating her more, by promising empty benefits that are not there, or intended for her.

Those are my two cents, that is from a Veteran who already has to wait to get the benefits as it is without people bogging the system with pipedreams.

Unfortunately, prescription coverage is only available from Blue Cross for those 65 and under.

I disagree 100% with your assessment of the case.  You're actually the first person who's been presented the case that doesn't see where the eligibility arises under the New Veterans Charter.  It's abundantly clear that the benefits are not just for those affected after the implementation date, as evidenced by the number of references in the Charter to service prior to April 1 1947 and service in Korea.

I've already got two Members of Parliament that say VAC is reading something that just isn't there.  The answer is in the Charter - someone at VAC just needs to read the thing.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Alright,

I will respond, and ask a few more questions

Well, he would have - had he not died before the pension was granted.

Again, he would have been eligible for the VIP program - had he been alive at the time the pension was granted.  Since he was not in receipt of the VIP benefits on the date of his death, he (and consequently, my mother) never gained eligibility for VIP benefits.

Your father passed on in 2001, However, and was awarded a pension afterwards.  This included all benefits to your mother.  Did you seek any form of care for your mother, via an insurance program in the five years since then?  I would assume by your statement that she was was beyond 65 years, therefore she was unable to go via blue cross, however they do deal with those that are beyond that age....Maybe I am confused, you did try with them?

Correct, although I think you're confusing two separate programs.  Neither my father nor mother were ever in receipt of VIP benefits (which includes the services listed at http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=services/vip#what).  The medical coverage I speak of is the "Health Benefits" provisions under the New Veterans Charter, specifically the PSHCP.

So you did not seek further aid for your mother, although it was available. Was this an assumption on your part that she was not eligible, much like insurance benefits covered by an insurance program such as B.C  or were you officially presented this information?

Then I'll ask you the same question I posed to VAC - Can you show me where it says that is the intent of the New Veterans Charter? 

If the intent was to limit benefits under the New Charter to those who were injured/killed after the April 1 2006, then why was it necessary to include a clause in the New Charter under Section 6 which specifically denies Rehab benefits to those who served in Korea, or those who served before April 1, 1947?

All those that apply after that date are entitled to that, meaning veterans.  Unfortunately, your father passed on and because of that, is not able to apply.  That is were the crux of my confusion lies, which I will follow up afterwards.

I have to disagree.  If you read the legislation closely, only those veterans (and by extension, survivors) who were injured or died directly as a result of military duty are eligible for the benefits under the New Charter.  Take a look at the "Eligibility" clauses in the New Veterans Charter at http://www2.parl.gc.ca/content/hoc/Bills/381/Government/C-45/C-45_4/C-45_4.PDF, specifically Section 66(2).  Then take a look at Schedule 3 of the PSHCP Directive at http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/TB_862/pshcpd-drssfp/pshcpd-drssfp21_e.asp, specifically where it says
Unfortunately, prescription coverage is only available from Blue Cross for those 65 and under.

Of course you would disagree.  As for the timeline of 65 and above, please provide links and official statements.  I find it hard to believe that in Canada, there are no provisions for the aged of 65 and above to be able to acquire medication under an insurance program.  Albeit, it may be at a reduced coverage, I am sure they would be approved.  As for survivors, what is your definition and extent to who would fall under this category, as my later post will reflect your answer.

I've already got two Members of Parliament that say VAC is reading something that just isn't there.  The answer is in the Charter - someone at VAC just needs to read the thing.

Peter Stoffer has been quite the champion of Veterans of our nation,  so you have a good man in your corner.  However, can you provide me information as to how he voted when Bill C-45 was introduced and then passed?

Maybe an answer on these few question could help me see the light, as I am not one to walk away from admitting my misjudgements.

dileas

tess

 

[284_226]

It's probably easier to respond to your questions without the quotes.

Blue Cross coverage was pursued for my mother after my dad passed away - and it was at that point that she learned prescription coverage was not available, and still isn't.  She resides in Ontario, and using the website at https://www.useblue.com/asp/secure/bluechoice_quote.asp and inputting "single, age 73, Core Health benefits and Hospital coverage, and prescription" for the quote, the very first thing the form does is generate a popup that says "Unfortunately, only persons 64 and under are eligible for prescription drugs coverage".

With regards to VIP coverage, she was told by VAC that she was ineligible because my father was never in receipt of VIP benefits.

You stated "All those that apply after that date (1 Apr 06) are entitled to that, meaning veterans" - that's the line that VAC is taking, however that's not what C-45 says, and it isn't what the Treasury Board PSHCP Directive says.  C-45 says:

A member, a veteran or a member’s or a veteran’s survivor may elect to participate in a group insurance program referred to in subsection (1) if they meet the prescribed eligibility requirements.

It makes no reference to the date the injury or death occurred.  However, the PSHCP Directive does refer to when veterans' survivors became eligible for PSHCP coverage:

The following persons, boards and agencies as amended from time to time by the Treasury Board of Canada were designated by Treasury Board of Canada, on the date shown, as being eligible to join the Plan:

(...)

VI) Effective April 1, 2006

- Former members of the Canadian Forces (CF Veterans) who have been approved for benefits under the Service Income Security Insurance Plan Long Term Disability (SISIP LTD) who do not otherwise have PSHCP;
- Veterans of the Canadian Forces (CF) with a rehabilitation need that is service related, identified by Veterans' Affairs Canada (VAC), who do not otherwise have post-release PSHCP eligibility;
- Survivors* of veterans and members of the Canadian Forces who have died as a result of military service when the survivors do not otherwise have PSHCP eligibility.

So we have C-45 stating that a veteran's survivor is eligible for PSHCP coverage.  Under the definition section, we have C-45 stating that a "veteran" is defined as a former member.  We have C-45 defining "member" as an officer or a non-commissioned member of the Canadian Forces.  We have C-45 defining "Canadian Forces" as the armed forces referred to in section 14 of the National Defence Act, and includes any predecessor naval, army or air forces of Canada or Newfoundland.  We haven't had a predecessor naval, army or air force since before unification, which last time I checked was long before 1 Apr 06.

So following that logic, my mother is a survivor of a veteran who died as a result of military service, and most definitely should be covered under the PSHCP - and I'm sure there are quite a few others out there in Canada that are in the same boat.

And I don't believe I can make it any clearer than that.

 

[the 48th regulator]

So let me get this,

You still have not defined for me what a survivor's criteria is.  This is important, in the fact you claim that all survivors must be allowed coverage by the Government via Veteran Affairs in perpetuity.

Who would be considered a survivor?

dileas

tess

 

[284_226]

So let me get this,

You still have not defined for me what a survivor's criteria is.  This is important, in the fact you claim that all survivors must be allowed coverage by the Government via Veteran Affairs in perpetuity.

Who would be considered a survivor?

Sorry, missed one.  You did have the link to the Charter, though

According to the New Charter (C-45)...

“survivor”, in relation to a deceased member or a deceased veteran, means
(a) their spouse who was, at the time of the member’s or veteran’s death, residing with the member or veteran; or
(b) the person who was, at the time of the member’s or veteran’s death, the member’s or veteran’s common-law partner.

That doesn't sound particularly taxing on the system, does it?  Bear in mind that the remaining parts of the New Charter (Job Placement, Rehabilitation Services/Vocational Assistance/Financial Benefits, and Disability/Death/Detention benefits) either already existed under the Old Charter in some different form (VIP), or are so targeted in scope that the number of affected people would be low.  The only real new benefit is the Health Benefits provision, specifically the PSHCP.