Asbestos in our submarines
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"'To suggest that asbestos was one of the components that burned in the Chicoutimi fire is pure speculation until the board has presented its analysis,' he said."
Please correct me if i'm mistaken, but isn't asbestos used primarly, if not solely for its fire retardant/proof properties? Does it burn if its shredded or torn?
Please correct me if i'm mistaken, but isn't asbestos used primarly, if not solely for its fire retardant/proof properties? Does it burn if its shredded or torn?
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NavalGent, I was under that impression, too. I though the whole point of asbestos was that it didn't burn, only smouldered, That said, I'd rather not have carcinogens in my workplace, and if that happened to be a sub, so be it. But as I said before, the bad press just seems to keep coming.
As usual making a mountain out of a molehill. Undisturbed asbestos hurts no one. Maybe someone in the know could explain if asbestos was banned on military equipment in Canada and/or if it is still used because the fire safety benefits outweighed any negatives....
I am, obviously, someone who is NOT in the know, however there was an article a little while ago talking about the refit of the Preserver being late and over budget, part of the reason being they found asbestos and had to remove it. I'd assume that since they took it out of the preserver that asbestos is banned from military equipment as well, although you never know.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26485.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26485.0.html
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Don't take my word as fact. I was under the impression that, since the use of asbestos in new equipment/housing/buildings in Canada was banned the general consensus was that if it was not disturbed, then leave it. If it had to be disturbed (renovations for eg) then it had to be removed. This would go for the military as well.
Of course, we still don't know the regs regarding asbestos in the UK. If its use in new facilities is still permitted over there than we would have to reason to remove it from the subs -- unless it had to be disturbed. If this is the case, then its presence in the subs should not be a big deal.
BTW, about 100% sure that asbestos is flame retardent. That's why it was so popular in housing and buildings in the past.
Of course, we still don't know the regs regarding asbestos in the UK. If its use in new facilities is still permitted over there than we would have to reason to remove it from the subs -- unless it had to be disturbed. If this is the case, then its presence in the subs should not be a big deal.
BTW, about 100% sure that asbestos is flame retardent. That's why it was so popular in housing and buildings in the past.
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Just thought this was an interesting article on the same day.....
http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=0aa59e0f-af4b-49ee-9cb0-7b6952fe49bb
Report warns of West Block asbestos risk
Engineering firm urged building be vacated because of cancer fears
Tim Naumetz
The Ottawa Citizen
Sunday, March 13, 2005
Loose asbestos fibres are so widespread in the attics and on the air ducts of Parliament's West Block that an engineering firm the Public Works department hired last year to assess the building refused to send its workers back above the ceilings after their first entry, documents show.
The documents reveal Public Works was first urged last June to vacate the building by December because of the health risk 600 parliamentary employees and about 40 MPs faced from cancer-causing asbestos.
But the building remains occupied and may not be closed until this fall, or even until next year, because of resistance from members of Parliament.
A draft report and final report from a three-month investigation of the West Block, and related letters sent to the department, also revealed engineers found six violations of the National Fire Code and 12 violations of the National Building Code in the heritage building.
The building was built in stages between 1859 and 1909.
The violations included unsafe elevators with no working telephones, locked fire-escape doors, blocked fire routes and
a remote-locking system that could trap tourists and employees on an outdoor cafeteria patio in an emergency.
The investigation found that, while employees were at risk inside the building, the public was in danger outside because of falling mortar and stone from the West Block's crumbling exterior.
The asbestos problem has been known for at least 16 years.
The asbestos was sprayed onto West Block iron work and attic ceilings as a fire retardant during a renovation in the 1960s. The asbestos used, amosite, has been banned since 1973 because it disintegrates with age and transforms into carcinogenic dust. Amosite fibres can cause lung cancer, and even low doses have caused mesothelioma, a rare cancer of the lining that covers most of the human body's internal organs.
The information is contained in reports from Golder Associates Ltd., a consulting firm hired by Public Works; letters between Golder and an engineering firm it hired to do on-site investigation; and correspondence from Golder to Public Works. The records were obtained by the Citizen under the Access to Information Act.
The documents show Golder Associates warned Public Works verbally in June the building should be vacated within six months, then gave the same recommendation in a letter in July, and later in a draft report the same month.
But Public Works and the Commons hired their own consultants to review the Golder report and challenge its findings.
Despite a scathing final report from Golder Associates last December, again urging the government to vacate the building within six months, the government insists the West Block asbestos is under control.
MPs don't want to disrupt their offices in case of a snap election, said NDP MP Pat Martin, one of the politicians unwilling to move until after an election.
A July 8, 2004, letter to Golder Associates from subconctractor, J. L. Richards & Associates Ltd., reveals a dramatic development only a few weeks before Golder was to present a draft final report in late July to Public Works.
"We have reviewed the potential health risk attendant with the inspection of asbestos-contaminated spaces in the West Block building and cannot justify placing our employees in these areas ..." the letter says.
Golder's final report reflected the same concern, noting "the best strategy for ending occupant exposure is to progressively move occupants from the building as soon as is reasonably achievable."
Following talks with Public Works over a July draft report, Golder added this line to the final report: "Although this is not an emergency situation, there is no means to predict when an asbestos event will occur."
The report contains a sobering warning about potential failings from the building's aging air conditioning and air-movement machinery, which the report says is beyond its expected life cycle.
The danger of disturbing asbestos particles in the ceilings is so great that Commons maintenance employees must wear protective suits to change lights or move ceiling tiles.
Conservative MP Diane Ablonczy and Liberal MP Lui Temelkovski have relocated to other buildings because of concern over asbestos.
"How many buildings do you know where they have to test the air quality every day?" said Ms. Ablonczy. "Just the fact that they have to do that sets off the alarm bells, or should."
A 1988 engineering study found asbestos "has also delaminated from ironwork and steelworks on to attic floors, on top of ceiling tiles and has penetrated other areas of the building through openings in the structure.
http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=0aa59e0f-af4b-49ee-9cb0-7b6952fe49bb
Report warns of West Block asbestos risk
Engineering firm urged building be vacated because of cancer fears
Tim Naumetz
The Ottawa Citizen
Sunday, March 13, 2005
Loose asbestos fibres are so widespread in the attics and on the air ducts of Parliament's West Block that an engineering firm the Public Works department hired last year to assess the building refused to send its workers back above the ceilings after their first entry, documents show.
The documents reveal Public Works was first urged last June to vacate the building by December because of the health risk 600 parliamentary employees and about 40 MPs faced from cancer-causing asbestos.
But the building remains occupied and may not be closed until this fall, or even until next year, because of resistance from members of Parliament.
A draft report and final report from a three-month investigation of the West Block, and related letters sent to the department, also revealed engineers found six violations of the National Fire Code and 12 violations of the National Building Code in the heritage building.
The building was built in stages between 1859 and 1909.
The violations included unsafe elevators with no working telephones, locked fire-escape doors, blocked fire routes and
a remote-locking system that could trap tourists and employees on an outdoor cafeteria patio in an emergency.
The investigation found that, while employees were at risk inside the building, the public was in danger outside because of falling mortar and stone from the West Block's crumbling exterior.
The asbestos problem has been known for at least 16 years.
The asbestos was sprayed onto West Block iron work and attic ceilings as a fire retardant during a renovation in the 1960s. The asbestos used, amosite, has been banned since 1973 because it disintegrates with age and transforms into carcinogenic dust. Amosite fibres can cause lung cancer, and even low doses have caused mesothelioma, a rare cancer of the lining that covers most of the human body's internal organs.
The information is contained in reports from Golder Associates Ltd., a consulting firm hired by Public Works; letters between Golder and an engineering firm it hired to do on-site investigation; and correspondence from Golder to Public Works. The records were obtained by the Citizen under the Access to Information Act.
The documents show Golder Associates warned Public Works verbally in June the building should be vacated within six months, then gave the same recommendation in a letter in July, and later in a draft report the same month.
But Public Works and the Commons hired their own consultants to review the Golder report and challenge its findings.
Despite a scathing final report from Golder Associates last December, again urging the government to vacate the building within six months, the government insists the West Block asbestos is under control.
MPs don't want to disrupt their offices in case of a snap election, said NDP MP Pat Martin, one of the politicians unwilling to move until after an election.
A July 8, 2004, letter to Golder Associates from subconctractor, J. L. Richards & Associates Ltd., reveals a dramatic development only a few weeks before Golder was to present a draft final report in late July to Public Works.
"We have reviewed the potential health risk attendant with the inspection of asbestos-contaminated spaces in the West Block building and cannot justify placing our employees in these areas ..." the letter says.
Golder's final report reflected the same concern, noting "the best strategy for ending occupant exposure is to progressively move occupants from the building as soon as is reasonably achievable."
Following talks with Public Works over a July draft report, Golder added this line to the final report: "Although this is not an emergency situation, there is no means to predict when an asbestos event will occur."
The report contains a sobering warning about potential failings from the building's aging air conditioning and air-movement machinery, which the report says is beyond its expected life cycle.
The danger of disturbing asbestos particles in the ceilings is so great that Commons maintenance employees must wear protective suits to change lights or move ceiling tiles.
Conservative MP Diane Ablonczy and Liberal MP Lui Temelkovski have relocated to other buildings because of concern over asbestos.
"How many buildings do you know where they have to test the air quality every day?" said Ms. Ablonczy. "Just the fact that they have to do that sets off the alarm bells, or should."
A 1988 engineering study found asbestos "has also delaminated from ironwork and steelworks on to attic floors, on top of ceiling tiles and has penetrated other areas of the building through openings in the structure.
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