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Artillery Ranks

spock

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Artillery Ranks (Gunner and Bombadiers) are only called within the Artillery section of the army right? Normally, would a bombadier in Artillery introduce himself as corporal or bombadier?
 

Nfld Sapper

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Would be introduced as Bombadier if he/she was Corporal and Master Bombadier if was a Master Corpora
 

thorbahn

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No, it's not just a "nickname" sort of title, a Gunner is a Gunner is a Gunner.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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Well I'm not sure about that, anywhere I went [militarilly]I introduced myself as M/Bdr Monkhouse.
The M/Cpl would be the "nickname". ;)
 

Journeyman

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It's an unofficial rank title: Private = Gunner, Corporal = Bombardier, Master Corporal = Master Bombadier - - much like an Armour Private is a Trooper, or an Engineer Pte, a Sapper. On their pay statements, it says "Pte, Cpl, MCpl."

All people wearing the cannon on their berets are referred to, unofficially, as "gunners,"  with some division between "mud gunners" (traditional field artillery), and "bird gunners" (air defence artillery).

Going back the original question, regarding how an artillery corporal would introduce himself, it would probably be "WHAT?! I CAN'T HEAR YOU; I'M A GUNNER!!"  ;)
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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...thats just what we pretend to the lower combat arm types.... ;D
 

Rhibwolf

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On my CLC I had a zipperhead Sgt who took great pleasure in calling us Bdrs/Gnrs by Cpl and Pte.  We took equal pleasure in alternating between ignoring him and reminding him that his black hat came from the navy.
 

Disenchantedsailor

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Journeyman said:
It's an unofficial rank title: Private = Gunner, Corporal = Bombardier, Master Corporal = Master Bombadier - - much like an Armour Private is a Trooper, or an Engineer Pte, a Sapper. On their pay statements, it says "Pte, Cpl, MCpl."
These are not just unofficial, in the defence act there are 3 or 4 tables of rank (believe it or not even the Navy types are Pte,Cpl and so on but have authority to use naval rank from the table, there are authorized branch differences in the tables also such as gnr bdr mbdr, sig, craftsman and so on
 

Nfld Sapper

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ArtyNewbie said:
These are not just unofficial, in the defence act there are 3 or 4 tables of rank (believe it or not even the Navy types are Pte,Cpl and so on but have authority to use naval rank from the table, there are authorized branch differences in the tables also such as gnr bdr mbdr, sig, craftsman and so on


Yes but if you look at the pay statments it would read:

Pte(T) for Sapper, Gnr, et al

Cpl for Bdr, et al

Mcpl for Mbdr, et al

Same goes for clothing docs.
 

sigtech

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Rhibwolf said:
On my CLC I had a zipperhead Sgt who took great pleasure in calling us Bdrs/Gnrs by Cpl and Pte.  We took equal pleasure in alternating between ignoring him and reminding him that his black hat came from the navy.
Hate to go off Topic but as a ex Tpr let me fill you in the Armour Black Hat did NOT come from the Navy

that is all

out
 

dapaterson

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ArtyNewbie said:
These are not just unofficial, in the defence act there are 3 or 4 tables of rank (believe it or not even the Navy types are Pte,Cpl and so on but have authority to use naval rank from the table, there are authorized branch differences in the tables also such as gnr bdr mbdr, sig, craftsman and so on

However, the NDA specifies that tables other than #1 may only be used when authorised; reading the QR&Os shows that only the Naval table is authorised.  See QR&O 3.01, which reads in part:
The ranks set out in paragraph (1) shall be used in all official communications within the Canadian Forces, except with respect to officers and non-commissioned members referred to in paragraph (2) for whom the rank designations set out in Column II of the Schedule to the National Defence Act shall be used.

Technically, use of terms such as "Trooper", "Gunner" or "Sapper" is contrary to the QR&Os.  From a practical perspective, everyone uses them, so it's quietly ignored...
 

Goober

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Go to Afghanistan, and tell that to the boys there. See what kind of response you get.
 

geo

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Goober said:
Go to Afghanistan, and tell that to the boys there. See what kind of response you get.

Uhh...why would you have to go there?
Would the answer be any different in say, Gagetown, Valcartier, Petawawa, Shilo or Edmonton? (or places inbetween?)
 

Disenchantedsailor

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the qro/nda say that it has to be authorized to use them but not by who it has to be authorized, seeing as the RCA Standing orders not only authorizes it but makes it mandatory would make thier use official as oppossed to contrary (I highly doubt the CLS would address a gunner by any other than a gunner rank - being a gunner himself)
 

dapaterson

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ArtyNewbie said:
the qro/nda say that it has to be authorized to use them but not by who it has to be authorized, seeing as the RCA Standing orders not only authorizes it but makes it mandatory would make thier use official as oppossed to contrary (I highly doubt the CLS would address a gunner by any other than a gunner rank - being a gunner himself)

Re-read the QR&O.  QR&O 3.01 states (in an article issued under the authority of the Governor in council) which ranks are to be used.  It is quite clear.  The RCA Standing Orders can say whatever they want - they are contradicted by orders issued from higher authority (that is, the QR&O).  RCA Standing Orders cannot override the National Defence Act, nor the QR&Os.

The fact that this order pertaining to the use of ranks is routinely flouted (including in the RCA Standing Orders) does not make it any less an order.  The RCA Standing Orders are issued under the authority of D Arty (I believe) - an ADVISORY position.  Note that word - D Arty does not command anything by virtue of holding that appointment.  He can advise and recommend, but does not command by virtue of that appointment.  (The individual holding that appointment may hold other positions as well which may grant him or her some command authority).

 

Observer23

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The National Defence Act (NDA) is the document of authority http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/N-5///en .  The QR&Os are regulations driven by the NDA.  You referred to QR&O 3.01, which shows only one of the four columns.

Look at SCHEDULE (Section 21) of the NDA in Column III (Which is the land column).  It is just pass article 306.  You’ll find a pile of titles for each serial number.  Have fun.
 
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