Army Expansion Versus The "Exodus of Experience" - Do We Have A Problem?

[ZipperHead]

The trouble with going to a Civ Contractor, is:

1.  You are stuck with them.  One phone call to the local MP's office, and the 'plan' to go back to mil instructors is dead in the water. 

2.  You can never regain those Mil PYs.  Easy to cut - hard to create.

Anybody who tells you "We can always go back to the old way if this doesn't work out" would pimp his or her own grandmothers.

Tom

I think the genie is already of the bottle on this one. I don't know about point #1, as there are more than a few companies involved in this, so they will have to try to remain competitive (not hiring dead-wood) or they will lose their contract. We witnessed a former military civilian contractor get fired from his company for not performing. Let's put it this way: he wouldn't have gotten as much as a few extras if he were in uniform for what he did, but the company wasn't happy with what he did, so canned him.

Point #2: You're closer to the truth than anybody wants to admit.

Your closing point: 100% in agreement (it's all about saving money, and that's it.....)

Al


Mods: Perhaps a thread split along the lines of "Civilian contractors: A solution for instructor shortages?" is in order for this tangent?!?

 

[Good2Golf]

Duey

Has the pilot shortage been stemmed by the current recruiting campaign or are there still a lot of pilots leaving? And if you don't mind me asking where do they go in civvy life? I can imagine the multi-engine guys are good to go for airlines but choppers aren't the easiet fit for Air Canada, no?

cheers,
mdh

MDH, they're not really related...always looking for pilots but I have a gut feel there will be some capability re-alignment and there will not be as much shortage afterwards as some believe there is now.  Yup, most fixed-wing/multi guys do the airlines afterwards...helo guys usually have to go offshore to make money, but it's there...CHC (Canadian Helicopter Corp.) is a big operator around the world.  I'd probably head off into industry to do non-flying stuff, myself.

Cheers,
Duey

 

[orange.paint]

With the civilian contractors getting hired onto teach Dvr courses another thing needs to be reconised.An armoured DP1 spends most of his course on the coyote DVR portion.So civilians will teach primary combat functions, lets leave that to serving members.

People in civilian attire doing our jobs just grosses me out. I know most are ex snr nco's but lets face it, are they going to give the students #%#$?Are they going to provide the example for these fresh young minds of what a instructor should be?I think it would provide too much of a "nice feeling" instead of the MCPL who would chew your head off on battle school.

They were also talking about contracting out coyote drivers a few years back also IIRC. Bet that would work really, really well.......

MCPL:"Crash hide!!!!"
civi dvr:"nope sorry sir (puffs on cigarette) I still got 14 minutes on my coffee break.....its in my contract."

Lose experience! If these people leaving after 25 yrs service were taught to do it, Im sure the younger soldiers can fill the positions just fine.

Too many civilians as it is now....tell army guys to do the jobs. We have no choice and will do it for half price!

edit due to sleep depravation

 

[paracowboy]

With the civilian contractors getting hired onto teach Dvr courses another thing needs to be reconised.An armoured DP1 spends a lot of his course on the coyote DVR portion,so civilians will teach primary combat functions?

People in civi's doing our jobs just grosses me out.I know most are ex snr nco's but lets face it,are they going to give the students #%#$?Are they going to provide the example for these fresh young minds of what a instructor should be?Give them something to strive for?I think not.

Didnt they talk about contracting out coyote/lav3 drivers a few years back also? Bet that would work really,really well......."Crash hide!!!!" "nope sorry sir" (even though he's talking to a mcpl) "I still got 14 minutes on my coffee break.....its in my contract."

Lose experience,if these people were taught to do it im sure the younger generation of higher educated soldiers will fill the positions just fine.

Too many civilians as it is now....tell army guys to do the jobs.we got no choice and will do it for half price!

you want to clean up your posts, man? I can barely make out what you're trying to say.

 

[Infanteer]

Although we are going to be losing a lot of the backbone "middle management" types to the BubbleTM sometime in the future, after reviewing the events of the last couple months does anyone here think that actual combat experience will be a huge factor in preparing these young officers and junior NCO's who will be stepping up to the plate a little early?  I would think that although the junior leadership has say, half the time in as the "generation" before, that that time in was spent in quite a high-intensity environment (as opposed to a tour of Cyprus and 4 years of REFORGER and Wainwright).

If this is indeed the case (which I think it is), than is this "Exodus" really going to be as huge a mortal blow as it is getting billed as?  I feel that the combination of a rising group of combat-experienced junior leaders combined with a very operationally focused CF leadership (The "Hillier Youth", as one fellow called it) may be enough to keep the Army on track.  It seems to me that the biggest problem is getting new guys into the door.

I think we are seeing this in the US right now as well - as PBI has noted, the fact that a substantial proportion of your Captains and Sergeants have CIB's means alot of change is happening for the better on the ground.

Just a few thoughts,
Infanteer

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Not sure about the officer types but the scuttle butt around here is that a lot of MCpl's and up aren't staying on for much longer which is unfortunate because they will obviously not be able to pass on their experience to those yet to go.