Armed Forces Consider incentives to keep soldiers fit

[Bluebulldog]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/armed-forces-considers-incentives-to-keep-soldiers-fit-1.2602857

"Most soldiers are passing new fitness test, but military wants them to strive for higher standards"

Interesting read. Funny how getting the level that gave you a pass for two years was said to be counter-intuitive.

 

[PMedMoe]

consulting with the director of heritage and history on what medals, coins or pins could be given out.

Oh, yippee.....  :

Edit to add:  Loving all the "in the old days" comments on there.  :warstory:

 

[horatio749]

We were asked this question when I did my FORCE test a month or so ago.
Pretty sure most of the "incentives" were things like, time off, PDR Points, even money.

 

[dangerboy]

I replied you should get nothing, it is part of your job.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I replied you should get nothing, it is part of your job.

:goodpost:

 

[DAA]

I replied you should get nothing, it is part of your job.

I guess my vote for "beer mugs" is out the window.......

 

[PuckChaser]

We were asked this question when I did my FORCE test a month or so ago.
Pretty sure most of the "incentives" were things like, time off, PDR Points, even money.

Was "not losing your job" one of the options? Because it should be the only one. If you can't be professional enough to stay fit for your job, then you shouldn't be a professional soldier.

 

[Robert0288]

Was "not losing your job" one of the options? Because it should be the only one. If you can't be professional enough to stay fit for your job, then you shouldn't be a professional soldier.

:goodpost:  Exactly this.

"The FORCE evaluation is essentially the minimum standard for the universality of service...."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/armed-forces-considers-incentives-to-keep-soldiers-fit-1.2602857

 

[Haggis]

Vitriolic..... rant..... building.

Must.....not.... type...... what.... I'm...... thinking.........


Hulk.....very....angry........

 

[Armymedic]

CAF members forget that this is meant to determine the baseline, the minimum standard, of fitness for ALL members of the Canadian Armed Forces.

There should be no additional incentives.

If people want to show off their fitness level, then let them pursue other means: inter unit sports and other sponsored events or non-CAF events like Tough Mudder or Mud Run. Nothing prevents units from having their own internal fitness competitions with compensation for good performance.

 

[Ayrsayle]

We've been this discussion in the office over the last few weeks.

The reality of the situation is that as long as a solider meets the "minimal" standard, there is very little incentive (outside of personal pride) to reach any other standard.  The FORCE Test will have more successful members, but by and large will decrease the overall levels of fitness within the military.

There is very little (In my opinion, nothing) from a command perspective to motivate soldiers to improve beyond the minimum standard.  Most of the suggestions were along the lines of "Have specific Environment/trade requirements for PT rather then only the FORCE test"  Shiny brass isn't really going to motivate a significant amount of pers above that who are already motivated.

 

[brihard]

Find Cpl Bloggins, and hire him into a sub-branch of the Public Affairs world to be named the "Fitness Assessment Test Appraisal / Stigmatic Shaming" det. All FORCE or other fitness tests will be be filmed and streamed online, with personnel identified by name and unit, with uncensored commentary enabled. One combat arms company at a time will rotate on a monthly basis through being tasked to spend an hour a day watching and commenting on the videos in lieu of staring at lockers. CF members will be required to review any public comments received on their fitness tests on a monthly basis.

 

[dimsum]

CAF members forget that this is meant to determine the baseline, the minimum standard, of fitness for ALL members of the Canadian Armed Forces.

There should be no additional incentives.

If people want to show off their fitness level, then let them pursue other means: inter unit sports and other sponsored events or non-CAF events like Tough Mudder or Mud Run. Nothing prevents units from having their own internal fitness competitions with compensation for good performance.

Exactly. 

Also, does the CAF sponsor or reimburse big events like triathlons, marathons (not just Army/AF Runs), etc?  Usually a marathon costs about $120-150; having the CAF reimburse members who do it may be an incentive and promote the CAF to the public (if wearing a CAF jersey or similar) at something like the BMO Vancouver Marathon or the Comox Snow to Surf competition.

At least for running events, the ADF will sponsor any marathon provided the member wears an official ADF running shirt. 

 

[George Wallace]

It is all about the 'bling'.

Sound familiar?

 

[dapaterson]

Why do we need national direction on something like this?  Why not employ, oh, leadership at the unit level?

Let Commanding Officers come up with incentives that will be meaningful to their own troops.  A day of short?  Recognition within the unit?  First pick of some jammy goes?  All kinds of things a CO can do.

 

[ballz]

Why do we need national direction on something like this?  Why not employ, oh, leadership at the unit level?

Let Commanding Officers come up with incentives that will be meaningful to their own troops.  A day of short?  Recognition within the unit?  First pick of some jammy goes?  All kinds of things a CO can do.

You can reward fit people all you want, but from what I've seen the fat lazy folks are more than happy to come to work and sit around and do nothing all day. They won't be motivated by a day off, they won't be motivated by a gucci course because they are too lazy to go on it anyway, and they don't care about recognition from the unit because they are happy to stay as a Cpl or MCpl because the responsibility of being in a leadership role also takes more energy than they are comfortable exerting, so being in a rifle company with a med chit so they can't be forced to do PT is about as jammy a go as they can dream of.

The only way to fix it is to raise the minimum fitness level, as it is the *bottom* of the fitness barrel that needs to be motivated, not the middle or the top. Probably a different "bona fide occupational requirement" ie a better fitness test for certain trades like the infantry where the case can be clearly made that the current standard is not enough. And an easier system for kicking people out...

 

[dapaterson]

And an easier system for kicking people out...

DAOD 5019-4.  Follow the steps.

 

[ballz]

Oh, I'm familiar with it ... it is not an easy process though, it can take years and that's why it rarely happens..

 

[Transporter]

You can reward fit people all you want, but from what I've seen the fat lazy folks are more than happy to come to work and sit around and do nothing all day. They won't be motivated by a day off, they won't be motivated by a gucci course because they are too lazy to go on it anyway, and they don't care about recognition from the unit because they are happy to stay as a Cpl or MCpl because the responsibility of being in a leadership role also takes more energy than they are comfortable exerting, so being in a rifle company with a med chit so they can't be forced to do PT is about as jammy a go as they can dream of.

The only way to fix it is to raise the minimum fitness level, as it is the *bottom* of the fitness barrel that needs to be motivated, not the middle or the top. Probably a different "bona fide occupational requirement" ie a better fitness test for certain trades like the infantry where the case can be clearly made that the current standard is not enough. And an easier system for kicking people out...

I understand the point you're trying to make, but I think you're over generalizing just a tad. I know some really fit guys who are dumber than a bag of hammers and are quite content to do the bare minimum within their trade. Conversely, I know some minimum-fitness types who are smarter than the leaders who lead them and take pride in the job they do every day. None are in rifle companies though and I do agree that the minimum fitness level could be raised a notch.

 

[donaldk]

Oh, I'm familiar with it ... it is not an easy process though, it can take years and that's why it rarely happens..

Agreed.  I have a couple very well staffed ARs last fall and still await final dispositions from DMCA 2 & DPM Secur 2.