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AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

Loachman

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FSTO said:
Whatever your thoughts about iAOR and JSS, this shot across the bows by Chantier/Davie is damn funny!

https://www.facebook.com/CoultishManagement/videos/1172581732876205/

Absolutely brilliant.

I hope that Davie's PR Guy/Girl is getting paid what he/she is worth, plus a huge tip.
 

garb811

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Considering it's been out for over a year and people here with a keen interest in the issue have just come across it, I think the tip shouldn't be overly large...
 

FSTO

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garb811 said:
Considering it's been out for over a year and people here with a keen interest in the issue have just come across it, I think the tip shouldn't be overly large...

I had never seen it before.
But the way its presented it was before the government said that they didn't need another iAOR.
 

Stoker

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FSTO said:
I had never seen it before.
But the way its presented it was before the government said that they didn't need another iAOR.

Yes it did make the rounds on social media, Davie does have a good PR machine and the amount of promoting they are doing is evidence they are getting desperate especially as the PM has slammed the door on a second AOR.
 

jmt18325

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Chris Pook said:
Maybe I'd be happier if somebody in Canada could just tell me the price of an apple.....like the rest of the world can.

For government accounting and budgeting purposes, it's far more important to know the entire cost of the 'apple'.
 

dimsum

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Oldgateboatdriver said:
I would take that article on the Asterix with a little grain of salt.

The writer says she was built from a tanker, which is not the case as she was converted from a container ship. Also, they call the cyclone a single-engine helicopter. While the Cyclone are single-rotor helicopters (as opposed to twin-rotor like the Chinook), they are definitely twin-engined, not single.

Considering they know what it is and does, that's better than articles about any green vehicle as a "tank" and an Aurora as a "spy plane".  :nod:
 

Baz

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Chief Engineer said:
Davie must really be desperate, think the PM will reverse his decision especially with the Admiral Norman trial going on? I wonder did Davie actually purchase the sister ship and counted on the government buying the second hull and now need the order?

I wouldn't read it that way.  The Asterix is being portrayed as a success story, they have the support of the Conservatives and the Province du Quebec, and their competition is not enjoying positive press right now.  Doesn't matter if what is being portrayed is completely correct or not, as a business they should be pushing and hope that something gives.

I would imagine that's what the shareholders want.

However, nothing is *likely* to give in the next year.

However... *if* Asterix continues to be seen as a success, *and* the province continues to back Davie, *and* the Conservatives make inroads in Quebec, *and* there is a change of government... the landscape would then look very different and Davie keeping the story out there would have a better chance of making something give.
 

MarkOttawa

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Davie is privately-held, no share trading:

...Davie’s parent company [Inocea–“a privately held group of companies headquartered in Europe (Monte-Carlo)”] [ http://www.inocea.com/ ]...
https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2016/03/11/mark-collins-davie-quebec-wants-to-build-icebreaker-for-unload-other-vessels-on-canadian-coast-guard/

Mark
Ottawa
 

Baz

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MarkOttawa said:
Davie is privately-held, no share trading:

Mark
Ottawa

See now I feel dumb... I actually thought that might be the case so I typed TSX Davie into google and came up with https://ca.advfn.com/stock-market/TSX/DAV/stock-price.  I saw it was listed as DAV but didn't notice all the info was blank.

If I had of just looked three results lower
Then I would have seen https://www.newswire.ca/fr/news-releases/tsx-delisting-review---davie-yards-inc-dav-539474831.html and found out it was delisted in 2010.

Lack of google-fu on my part.
 

MarkOttawa

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Baz: certainly not trying to make you feel dumb, good research. I just love the Monte Carlo angle, "the man who broke the bank at" angle (with a "Lawrence of Arabia" twist at the video!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJymx3UjWLo

Mark
Ottawa
 

brihard

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Chief Engineer said:
Yes it did make the rounds on social media, Davie does have a good PR machine and the amount of promoting they are doing is evidence they are getting desperate especially as the PM has slammed the door on a second AOR.

I wouldn't say it's 'desperation'. It's an election year and they know it. They also know that the issue is unusually prominent given the ongoing Norman case, which of course will come to trial shortly before the polls. This is basically the only time 'normal' Canadians are likely to notice or care about naval replenishment ships. It also puts the option out there as an alluring election plank for the Conservatives, who probably recognize the benefit of a nice cookie for Quebec. Particularly one a veritable stone's throw from Bernier's riding.

I doubt Davie expects the Liberals to buy another iAOR. I think they hope the Conservatives will be in a position to.
 

MarkOttawa

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Just keep in mind Davie is a Very Big Thing in Quebec, federal election next year and all that (Dec. 7 release from Davie itself but...78 seats in House of Commons):

Quebec's National Assembly unanimously adopted a motion in support of the Federal government's reform or 'refresh' of the National Shipbuilding Strategy.

The motion called upon the federal government to endorse the House of Commons and Senate's recommendations to proceed immediately with the construction at Davie Shipbuilding of a second Resolve-Class Naval Support Ship as well as a new fleet of icebreakers for the Canadian Coast Guard...
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/quebecs-national-assembly-unanimously-adopts-a-motion-in-support-of-the-federal-governments-refresh-of-the-national-shipbuilding-strategy-702203571.html

And so far they have sold one supply ship and three CCG icebreakers (all re-builds) in the face of a negative bureaucracy. How wise to bet against some more work, esp. as Irving and Seaspan are oh so slow?

Mark
Ottawa
 

Stoker

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Brihard said:
I wouldn't say it's 'desperation'. It's an election year and they know it. They also know that the issue is unusually prominent given the ongoing Norman case, which of course will come to trial shortly before the polls. This is basically the only time 'normal' Canadians are likely to notice or care about naval replenishment ships. It also puts the option out there as an alluring election plank for the Conservatives, who probably recognize the benefit of a nice cookie for Quebec. Particularly one a veritable stone's throw from Bernier's riding.

I doubt Davie expects the Liberals to buy another iAOR. I think they hope the Conservatives will be in a position to.

From what I have been told they may actually own the second ship and did so with the expectation the government was going to build the second. I would expect they probably want to unload that hull. It is entirely possible they proceed to build a second Asterix type ship and offer it to another Navy.
 

kratz

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[quote author=Chief Engineer]
From what I have been told they may actually own the second ship and did so with the expectation the government was going to build the second. I would expect they probably want to unload that hull. It is entirely possible they proceed to build a second Asterix type ship and offer it to another Navy.
[/quote]

Isn't that the sweet spot with the intent for the national ship building program?
If our ship yards are running 100% and selling to meet international demands, while meeting our needs...
 

NavyShooter

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I have very little faith that ISI will ever be able to sell a warship to anyone other than the RCN - they are not competitive in the world market. 
 

Halifax Tar

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dapaterson said:
Not particularly competitive in the. Canadian market, for that matter...
NavyShooter said:
I have very little faith that ISI will ever be able to sell a warship to anyone other than the RCN - they are not competitive in the world market.

I didn't think competitiveness was a requirement in Canadian ship building programs. 
 

Colin Parkinson

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By the time the first JSS enters active service, Astreix is going to need a decent refit, when she is through that, we have 1 AOR for each coast for at least 2 years, then the next JSS comes online and will be bouncing from coast to coast as vessels go in and out of refit, unplanned events, etc.
 

Stoker

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Colin P said:
By the time the first JSS enters active service, Astreix is going to need a decent refit, when she is through that, we have 1 AOR for each coast for at least 2 years, then the next JSS comes online and will be bouncing from coast to coast as vessels go in and out of refit, unplanned events, etc.

You are assuming we will keep Asterix past the 5 year lease....
 

FSTO

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Chief Engineer said:
You are assuming we will keep Asterix past the 5 year lease....

Because that would make total sense to get rid of an asset prior to the first JSS reaching IOC let alone FOC.

But then again, thats the Canadian way isn't it?
 
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