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Annual Pay Increase for 2011

MasterInstructor

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I only have about 2 years in, in April 2010 all CF members received a raise separate from the incentives. It was something around 2 percent, in order to compensate inflation etc.

This year I assumed same would happen but still we are getting paid the same rates from 2010. I have found the historical rates and it seems like there was a raise almost every year since 1970s and in the past 2 decades this year is the only year where there has not been a inflation adjustment. I was wondering if anybody had any info on this topic?

Is it possible that they will give a raise retro active to april 2011? I think something like that was done approximately 4 years ago. Any input from those with years of experience would be appreciated.
 
I would remind (especially new members to the CF) people that with 10% budget cuts for all Federal Departments mandate by the Government, it is a possibility we may not see anything. Remember, believe half of what you see and less of what you hear ... especially when it comes to pay raises.
 
A briefing from a local commander on Friday says that DND owes 2 billion dollars back to the treasury. One billion for last year and another billion for the next 10% of budget cuts. Interesting times coming for the army. He said that everything is on the table from PLD/LDA to closing of units/bases. everything is dependent on the next budget and MND.
 
Pat in Halifax said:
I would remind (especially new members to the CF) people that with 10% budget cuts for all Federal Departments mandate by the Government, it is a possibility we may not see anything. Remember, believe half of what you see and less of what you hear ... especially when it comes to pay raises.

Generally the cuts aren't made on the backs of pay raises for the troops, however if other governement departments aren't giving the public servants raises - then we likely won't see any either.

 
Pay and benefits are usually tied in with those in the Public Service. However, there is a something called the 'military factor' that adds approximately 7.5% to CF pay over what a comparable civil servant would earn. The background and FAQs can be found at the following link:

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pay-sol/faq/index-eng.asp

That being said, most PS unions have negotiated raises in the 1.5-1.75% range for the 2011-13 timeframe and in return gave up their future severance pay at the rate of 1 week per year of service.

I would expect that the CF will see a similar raise which has been made retroactive in the past. However, there was a stretch in the 90s where we saw pay incentives and raises frozen for about 5 years at a time when many Privates were living below the povery line.  Afterwards we did recieve a good raise of somewhere around 7%.

Given the state of affairs of the Government today, I would concur with some others who've noted that everything is on the table and that DND along with most other departments will have to cough up $$$$$$ to fight the defecit. Given that personnel costs account for over 55% of DND's budget, this area will be closely examined.   
 
Considering the PS did get the 1.5% and the CFM already has the 1.5% built into it my guess is that it is just waiting for all the T's to be crossed and I's to be dotted.  It is normal for our increases to get screwed up in election years so not worried about it, after all they do have the PS/CF ratio to maintain so will have to cough something up eventually........unless they change the ratio.    Shhhhhhh.
 
There is an organization in NDHQ called the Director of Pay Policy Development (DPPD, part of the Director General Compensation and Benefits) that deals with such issues.

Any increase to CF pay rates and any changes to benefits are done by this group, working with the Treasury Board to set rates and policies.


Delays in announcing a pay increase are not connected to the Strategic Review (SR) or the Deficit Reduction Action Plan (DRAP).  The last Federal Budget indicated that DND/CF had identified $525M in savings for fiscal 12/13, and $1B per year beyond that.  If you go to http://www.budget.gc.ca/2011/plan/anx1-eng.html you can see where that $1B per year in savings will come from.

The Deficit Reduction Action Plan is still underway, with no decisions yet.  That is where each department has identified 5% and 10% reductions; for DND/CF, those would represent about $500M or $1B in addition to the $1B announced in budget 2011.  I expect those reductions will be announced in the next Federal Budget.


Back on topic here:  It is not unusual for pay increases to be announced late; it is not unusual for them to be retroactive.  There is a great deal of work involved in adjusting the pay scales, both internal to DND and external.  Getting everyone to do everything can be like herding cats.  It will be done when it's done; it will then be announced, and then we can start new threads about "Why hasn't my retro pay shown up yet?" and "When will we get the 2012 pay increase?"; in other words, the circle of life will continue.
 
Add to that the fact that there are still several Public Service (PS) unions who have not signed off new collective agreements (2 tables of PSAC,  the CS community in PIPSC, and the EL community in IBEW, off the top of my head), there is still lots of room for the benchmark PS wage to go up....or down.
 
Jim Seggie said:
Generally the cuts aren't made on the backs of pay raises for the troops, however if other governement departments aren't giving the public servants raises - then we likely won't see any either.

What about the late 80's and 90's. Pay incentives frozen no pay raises.
 
wesleyd said:
Jim Seggie said:
Generally the cuts aren't made on the backs of pay raises for the troops, however if other governement departments aren't giving the public servants raises - then we likely won't see any either.
What about the late 80's and 90's. Pay incentives frozen no pay raises.

Technically, 'frozen' does not equal 'cut'.  ;)


The cycle that dapaterson noted above averages 12-18 months behind the PS, so we shouldn't start panicking quite yet.
 
It's hard to say. On the one side, it's possible that all the budget cuts could impact a pay increase for us. On the other side, some PS folks have seen a cost of living pay increase, which means we should see one eventually. I'm not banking on it though. I wouldn't be highly surprised if we didn't see a raise for 2011. The same holds true for a reduction in PLD.
 
teenwolf said:
It's hard to say. On the one side, it's possible that all the budget cuts could impact a pay increase for us. On the other side, some PS folks have seen a cost of living pay increase, which means we should see one eventually. I'm not banking on it though. I wouldn't be highly surprised if we didn't see a raise for 2011. The same holds true for a reduction in PLD.

PS folks don't see "cost of living pay increases".  Their unions negotiate new collective agreements when the old ones expire, then the benchmark PS raise is determined in order to figure out what may be offered to the CF in the form of an economic adjustment.  None of the PS unions I mentioned earlier have ratified new agreements yet...
 
Occam said:
PS folks don't see "cost of living pay increases".  Their unions negotiate new collective agreements when the old ones expire, then the benchmark PS raise is determined in order to figure out what may be offered to the CF in the form of an economic adjustment.  None of the PS unions I mentioned earlier have ratified new agreements yet...

You're arguing semantics. I've been in unions before, worked towards new collective agreements, and understand how they work. The pay tables increase to reflect inflation (typically not on par though). A primary argument by unions for the increase is inflation. If you don't want to refer to that as a cost of living increase, then that's your choice. There are unions with the CG that have reached a new collective agreement; so I am told by friends in the CG. Even if there are collective agreements yet to be ratified, this doesn't mean that new higher rates haven't been finalized and will eventually become reality.
 
teenwolf said:
You're arguing semantics. I've been in unions before, worked towards new collective agreements, and understand how they work. The pay tables increase to reflect inflation (typically not on par though). A primary argument by unions for the increase is inflation. If you don't want to refer to that as a cost of living increase, then that's your choice. There are unions with the CG that have reached a new collective agreement; so I am told by friends in the CG.

That may be so, but nothing will be determined, for us, until they ALL get new ones, IIRC.
 
teenwolf said:
I don't recall claiming differently.

Really?

teenwolf said:
Even if there are collective agreements yet to be ratified, this doesn't mean that new higher rates haven't been finalized and will eventually become reality.

It would not be in the CF's interest to go looking to finalize an increase until all the various players have settled.  The unions I mentioned previously who have not ratified agreements yet make up a sizable portion of the PS, and are arguably some of the unions with more "leverage" for increases.
 
Occam said:
Really?

It would not be in the CF's interest to go looking to finalize an increase until all the various players have settled.  The unions I mentioned previously who have not ratified agreements yet make up a sizable portion of the PS, and are arguably some of the unions with more "leverage" for increases.

Yes, really.

I have not said, anywhere, that the CF should go looking to finalize an increase prior to PS negotatiatons. In my original post, I stated that some PS have an increase in the works, which means we will would likely get one eventually.

My quote that you used was in response to your comment: "None of the PS unions I mentioned earlier have ratified new agreements yet..."
 
teenwolf said:
Yes, really.

I have not said, anywhere, that the CF should go looking to finalize an increase prior to PS negotatiatons. In my original post, I stated that some PS have an increase in the works, which means we will would likely get one eventually.

My quote that you used was in response to your comment: "None of the PS unions I mentioned earlier have ratified new agreements yet..."

Well, if the PS unions I mentioned have not yet ratified agreements, how can you possibly make a misleading statement such as "some PS have an increase in the works, which means we will would likely get one eventually"??

If the remaining unions who haven't settled don't fare as well in negotiations as those who have already settled, that would mean the CF would likely not get an increase since it's entirely possible the average of the PS unions' increases would be zero.

All that to say that you're simply guessing until all the unions have ratified their collective agreements.  Speculate away for all it's worth.
 
Occam said:
If the remaining unions who haven't settled don't fare as well in negotiations as those who have already settled, that would mean the CF would likely not get an increase since it's entirely possible the average of the PS unions' increases would be zero.

It's not as simple as that.  We're not paid based on any average of PS salaries.  Our pay is benchmarked against the Public Service, but a complex formula then kicks in to determine what our pay will be.  I'm leaning toward thinking that we will receive a pay raise eventually, backdated to 1 Apr 11 with another one effective 1 Apr 12.
 
Or do like they did back in the early 2000's, they back dated a pay raise that went back years....
 
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