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All things Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)

Blackadder1916

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2022 is going to be lovely for our health care system if the UK is any indication.

A reminder that the UK has a lot more hospital capacity than Canada.

But here is to everyone with hope.🍻

Really?

Okay, I'm being sarcastic but the usual measurement of national "hospital capacity" is beds per 1000 population. https://data.oecd.org/healtheqt/hospital-beds.htm

OECD hosp beds.png

(for quick visual - orange bar is UK, red bar is Canada)

But that is not to say that Canada's health care resources are equal to the UK's; there are many factors that contribute to the picture. The other quick measurement is physicians per population.

OECD practising doctors.png

UK just scrapes past us at 2.8 per 100k compared to our 2.7

That being said, could you explain your statement re UK greater hospital capacity.
 

PuckChaser

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The Delta variant did not come in the fall, but in the summer. The R factor of Delta was only a 1.2 to 1.3, a main reason why it took so much time for it to snowball into the fall, add in the fact the that Delta was overwhelmingly a pandemic for the unvaxxed. A decision could have been made to ‘screw the unvaxxed’ and let the rest of us live normal lives would have been interesting if Omicron didn’t come along.

Also, with Omicron, it showed up in SA in their late spring, which times with our late fall. An R factor of between 6-7 lead to it rapidly spreading. A different world we’d be living in if it spread at the same rate as Delta. Wouldn’t even be talked about here at this point.
I guess the WHO is lying directly on their website by listing the earliest documented samples of Delta being India in Oct 2020 and Omicron in multiple countries in Nov 2021.
 

Czech_pivo

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I guess the WHO is lying directly on their website by listing the earliest documented samples of Delta being India in Oct 2020 and Omicron in multiple countries in Nov 2021.
I was referring to when Delta began to be discussed here in NA, it was the summer, late July, early August and for Omicron, in SA it was their late spring, our fall.
Which variant has begun here (Europe/NA) during our fall?
 

Fishbone Jones

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I guess the WHO is lying directly on their website by listing the earliest documented samples of Delta being India in Oct 2020 and Omicron in multiple countries in Nov 2021.
Many would say that WHO has been less than honest since Covid came out of Red China. After all, and I can be corrected on this, the ChiComs are one of the biggest contributors to WHO since their beginning. Others are private interests like Bill Gates. Personally, I think WHO is a biased, bought and paid for shill organization. They may have started out with noble intentions but modern greed and political power has infected the whole organization and rendered it impotent and emasculated.
 

brihard

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More Restrictions in Ontario

So much for moving on. Apparently having 1% of the entire population in hospital is a bit of a problem when many of the hospital staff is also also too sick to work.
Ford sounds like he just barely survived three rounds in a boxing ring. Elliot sounds like she’s fighting a fire and has realized her exit’s cut off… schools will definitely be closed longer than two weeks if the key criteria is hospital capacity.
 

Remius

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From what I read it is supposed to peak on the 24th so yeah, will definitely be longer I think.
 

Quirky

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More Restrictions in Ontario

So much for moving on. Apparently having 1% of the entire population in hospital is a bit of a problem when many of the hospital staff is also also too sick to work.

Government healthcare incompetence is everyone's problem. Waves of restrictions are the new norm.

Gyms are closed again I see. Brilliant move! People can just exercise outside in the middle of winter.
 

kev994

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Ford sounds like he just barely survived three rounds in a boxing ring. Elliot sounds like she’s fighting a fire and has realized her exit’s cut off… schools will definitely be closed longer than two weeks if the key criteria is hospital capacity.
It was about 10 minutes between the announcement and my kids’ school firing off an email about how this would work. It seems they may have known ahead of time.
 

Altair

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Really?

Okay, I'm being sarcastic but the usual measurement of national "hospital capacity" is beds per 1000 population. https://data.oecd.org/healtheqt/hospital-beds.htm

View attachment 67883

(for quick visual - orange bar is UK, red bar is Canada)

But that is not to say that Canada's health care resources are equal to the UK's; there are many factors that contribute to the picture. The other quick measurement is physicians per population.

View attachment 67884

UK just scrapes past us at 2.8 per 100k compared to our 2.7

That being said, could you explain your statement re UK greater hospital capacity.
Puzzle me this then.

How is it that Canada and the UK have the same hospital capacity but the UK can remain open and weather the delta and omicron waves but Canada has needed to lock down for both?
 

Quirky

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I bike outside year round, it’s not all that different than cross country skiing, the hardest part is actually not overheating.

Western Canada was in a deep freeze of temperatures averaging -20c plus windchill. You can't bike in these conditions.

Closing gyms to healthy vaccinated people in the middle of winter is completely moronic.
 

brihard

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Puzzle me this then.

How is it that Canada and the UK have the same hospital capacity but the UK can remain open and weather the delta and omicron waves but Canada has needed to lock down for both?
Not sure where you’re getting this rosy picture of the situation in Britain. That doesn’t echo what people working within the system are saying. At least one of their hospital trusts had to declare an internal emergency two days ago because they are “unable to maintain safe staffing levels”, leading to “compromised care” at the hospitals it manages. Hospitalizations are rising in the U.K. They aren’t far enough ahead of us on the epidemiological curve that we should be looking at their situation and taking any comfort in it. They moved from “fuck around” to “find out” barely ahead of when we did.
 

MilEME09

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Western Canada was in a deep freeze of temperatures averaging -20c plus windchill. You can't bike in these conditions.

Closing gyms to healthy vaccinated people in the middle of winter is completely moronic.
Like Himshaw recommending outdoor gatherings in December when it was -30 out?
 

Altair

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Not sure where you’re getting this rosy picture of the situation in Britain. That doesn’t echo what people working within the system are saying. At least one of their hospital trusts had to declare an internal emergency two days ago because they are “unable to maintain safe staffing levels”, leading to “compromised care” at the hospitals it manages. Hospitalizations are rising in the U.K. They aren’t far enough ahead of us on the epidemiological curve that we should be looking at their situation and taking any comfort in it. They moved from “fuck around” to “find out” barely ahead of when we did.
I myself have posted about the caseloads in the UK, and how they were bracing for a wave of omicron patients.

But the difference is the UK doesn't need to shut down to protect their hospitals, and the NHS has yet to collapse.

So how can the UK manage to tough it out while Canada needs to lock down time and again?
 

Quirky

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But the difference is the UK doesn't need to shut down to protect their hospitals

We don't need to either. Time to prop up those field hospitals and stretcher in the unvaccinated, let the unvaccinated healthcare workers treat them. Leave the hospitals for everyone else and they won't be overrun.
 

brihard

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I myself have posted about the caseloads in the UK, and how they were bracing for a wave of omicron patients.

But the difference is the UK doesn't need to shut down to protect their hospitals, and the NHS has yet to collapse.

So how can the UK manage to tough it out while Canada needs to lock down time and again?

Alternatively, the U.K. have decided not to meaningfully protect their hospitals? We’ll see over the next few weeks; the die is cast.
 

Altair

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Alternatively, the U.K. have decided not to meaningfully protect their hospitals? We’ll see over the next few weeks; the die is cast.
They didn't lock down over delta, and yet their hospital system didn't collapse.

Canada did.

Yet Canada has the same supposed capacity as the UK.

Ha!
 

suffolkowner

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They didn't lock down over delta, and yet their hospital system didn't collapse.

Canada did.

Yet Canada has the same supposed capacity as the UK.

Ha!
Maybe the lockdowns didn't/don't actually accomplish anything?

The BC and Ontario systems have performed differently too. Why?

We need better measures of capability?
 

Altair

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Maybe the lockdowns didn't/don't actually accomplish anything?

The BC and Ontario systems have performed differently too. Why?

We need better measures of capability?
We certainly do.

I don't take any system of measurement seriously that says Canada and the UK have comparable hospital capacity. I don't care what the numbers say, looking at performance, the UK has now managed to absorb two wave of ever increasing contagious variants without needing to lock down to protect their health care systems and the NHS not collapsing, Canada has needed to lock down for delta and now omicron to protect the hospital system from collapse.

Any metric that has the two systems as equals is seriously flawed.
 
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