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All things Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)

rmc_wannabe

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What percentage are unvaccinated?

Only thing relevant now are deaths in vaccinated population, which is extremely rare. People in Canada or USA who die of Covid from here in out are the kind of people we don't need around.

All of the people (my wife included) that are immunocompromised or otherwise medically unable to get the vaccine would like to have a word with you about that. Perhaps we should have let this thing kill off all the old folks in the LTCFs last year as well?
 

brihard

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I think we're probably good on the dogpile folks, the member likely gets the point.

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I just want to point out that this aged like milk.

All of the people (my wife included) that are immunocompromised or otherwise medically unable to get the vaccine would like to have a word with you about that. Perhaps we should have let this thing kill off all the old folks in the LTCFs last year as well?

That has basically been his stance on this for the entire 16 months or so of this discussion thread. He was writing off the elderly in lieu of risking his own day to day convenience right from the get go. The concerns of immunocompromised or otherwise medically vulnerable were put to him many times over many months. His posting history on the subject of COVID killing the old and weak is consistent and gross.
 

Altair

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All of the people (my wife included) that are immunocompromised or otherwise medically unable to get the vaccine would like to have a word with you about that. Perhaps we should have let this thing kill off all the old folks in the LTCFs last year as well?
While quirky is rude, the point is approaching where we need to come to a decision on what to do if this thing is endemic.

We have a few choices.

1) Open up everything. Virus spreads, runs rampant like in the USA, or UK infecting vaccinated and unvaccinated people alike,with vaccinated people having milder symptoms and unvaccinated more severe symptoms. Pray that our hospitals can handle the strain.

2) Only open society for vaccinated people, lock unvaccinated people out of society for their own safety, as the virus spreads amongst the vaccinated segment of society, hope that with the majority of vaccinated people having mild symptoms, the hospitals can handle the strain. Accept that we live in a two tier society.

3)Lock down all of society and continue to try to to keep everyone alive, vaccinated and unvaccinated, and pray the economy doesn't collapse and civil unrest start. Hospitals should be fine in this scenario though.
 

Brad Sallows

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As long as children are not widely vaccinated, many effective vectors are unvaccinated. High-risk people can choose vaccination to mitigate the risk of fatal or severe illness. We're in (1); we just haven't accepted opening up yet.
 

daftandbarmy

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As long as children are not widely vaccinated, many effective vectors are unvaccinated. High-risk people can choose vaccination to mitigate the risk of fatal or severe illness. We're in (1); we just haven't accepted opening up yet.

We appear to have a good idea of the target population for the fourth wave. From the US ....


As COVID-19 cases rise, 'this is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated,' CDC director says​


Just as the nation seemed like it was turning a corner in the pandemic, COVID-19 infections are on the rise once more, and it's targeting a very specific population: Those who remain unvaccinated.

According to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, on Thursday, July 15, alone there were 33,000 new cases of the coronavirus, bringing the seven day average ending July 16 to 23,600 – an increase of 70% from the previous two-week period.

Hospital admissions and deaths are also on the rise. There were 2,790 hospital admissions in the seven-day period ending July 16, an increase of 26% from the previous reporting period, while the seven-day average for daily deaths has increased by 26% to 211 per day.

Data published by USA Today shows that cases are rising in all 50 states, with some startling increases in certain areas. Rhode Island, for example, saw cases almost triple in a one-week period, with Maine and Vermont following closely behind. Massachusetts, Alaska and Kentucky have seen their cases more than double in that time, followed by Minnesota, Florida and Texas.

Cases are rising fastest in Arkansas, Florida, Missouri and Nevada, all of which have low vaccination rates, according to Market Watch. In all four of those states, less than half of residents are fully vaccinated.

"There is a clear message that is coming through: This is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated," said CDC Director Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky during a news conference on Friday. "We are seeing outbreaks in cases in parts of the country that have low vaccination coverage because unvaccinated people are at risk. And communities that are vaccinated are generally faring well."

In broad geographic strokes, the South, Midwest and parts of the West are seeing the largest case increases, with the counties showing the highest increases sharing the common characteristic of having low vaccination rates.

"In January, we were averaging nearly 200,000 cases per day," said Walensky. "From January to June, we made remarkable progress, where the counties with a high number of transmissions decreased. Now … you can see the recent growth in cases. So while we are in a better position than we were in January through April, this is giving us a reason to double down and get more people vaccinated."

Of course, as viruses tend to do, the coronavirus has mutated into several different variants, with the Delta variant causing the most concern. Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said the answer to overcoming the challenge of new variants is the same as before: get vaccinated.

An estimated half of the population has been fully vaccinated.

"We are dealing with a formidable variant in the Delta variant, as reflected by the data, and the extreme vulnerability of people who are not vaccinated, which will account for hospitalizations and eventually death," Fauci told CNN this week. "These vaccines continue the strong protection against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant."

White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator Jeffrey Zients told CNN that four states in particular have shown some alarming numbers.

"Just four states accounted for more than 40% of all cases in the past week, with one in five occurring in Florida alone," said Zients. "Unvaccinated Americans account for virtually all recent COVID hospitalizations and death."

The four states with the highest number of COVID-19 cases in the country are, in order, California, Texas, Florida and New York, according to statista.

Florida, Zients said, is telling cruise lines and other businesses that they can't mandate passengers show proof of vaccinations status; Norwegian cruise lines is suing the state over it, said Zients. Meanwhile, in California's Los Angeles County and Nevada's Clark County, mask mandates have returned for both indoor and outdoor settings.

"The good news is that if you're fully vaccinated, you're protected against severe COVID hospitalization and death, and even protected against known variants, including the Delta variant, circulating in this country," said Walensky. "If you're not vaccinated, you remain at risk, and our biggest concern is that we are going to continue to see preventable cases, hospitalizations and, sadly, deaths among the unvaccinated."

WHAT'S THE IMPACT

How the ongoing vaccination push plays out will determine how the country is able to respond to the latest surge, and will have implications for hospitals and health systems.

The healthcare industry was rocked in 2020 by a surge in urgent care for coronavirus patients as well as large numbers of deferrals of routine care, which combined to hit hospitals and health systems in their wallets, hard. The median Kaufman Hall hospital operating margin index was -0.6% in January, not including federal Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act funding. With the funding, it was -0.1%.

In May, the Biden administration set a goal of getting 70% of Americans vaccinated by July 4, but the country has fallen short of achieving that goal, threatening the idea of herd immunity, in which a critical mass of the population becomes inoculated and prevents widespread transmission of a pathogen.

Vaccine hesitancy remains a problem, with many Americans reluctant to get their shots or unwilling to do so. In May, a Sermo poll showed that more than 72% of physicians surveyed said that patients continue to voice concerns over vaccine side effects. Still others have reported ongoing misinformation discouraging people from getting vaccines. And close to 30% of physicians reported encountering patients who have skipped their second dose due to unpleasant side effects from the first dose, or concerns over side effects.

THE LARGER TREND

As of Monday, there were 190,595,607 confirmed cases of COVID-19 across the world, including more than 34 million in the U.S., which leads the world. The U.S. also leads the world in virus-related deaths, with 609,023, according to the Johns Hopkins coronavirus tracker.

India is second in the world in terms of cases, with more than 31 million, while Brazil comes in third at roughly 19.3 million. Brazil has recorded the second-highest number of deaths, at more than 542,000, while India has the third-highest death rate, with more than 414,000.

 

Remius

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I just want to point out that this aged like milk.



That has basically been his stance on this for the entire 16 months or so of this discussion thread. He was writing off the elderly in lieu of risking his own day to day convenience right from the get go. The concerns of immunocompromised or otherwise medically vulnerable were put to him many times over many months. His posting history on the subject of COVID killing the old and weak is consistent and gross.
Seems to be the unvaccinated and anti vaxxers are the ones getting this now. Soon it will only be the ones who have refused to get it based on fear and conspiracies. Maybe Quirky is on to something about those we don’t need in this society…
 

Altair

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Seems to be the unvaccinated and anti vaxxers are the ones getting this now. Soon it will only be the ones who have refused to get it based on fear and conspiracies. Maybe Quirky is on to something about those we don’t need in this society…

There is a growing correlation between vaccinated Israelis who have been infected with the Delta variant of the coronavirus and those who were among the first to get the vaccine, possibly indicating that the vaccine’s protection fades over time, a report said Sunday.




So the statement that only the unvaccinated and anti vaxxers get it may not hold up past 6 months. The only good news would be that the vaccinated who get it have better outcomes.
 

mariomike

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Seems to be the unvaccinated and anti vaxxers are the ones getting this now. Soon it will only be the ones who have refused to get it based on fear and conspiracies. Maybe Quirky is on to something about those we don’t need in this society…
I certainly hope not. My best friend refuses to get vaccinated. I worked with him. I've known him for 40 years. He lives just around the corner from me.
 

Altair

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The effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine against the Delta variant is “weaker” than health officials had hoped, Prime Minister Naftali Bennett said on Friday, as over 1,000 people tested positive for coronavirus and more countries were added to the list of places to which Israelis will be banned from traveling.

“We do not know exactly to what degree the vaccine helps, but it is significantly less,” Bennett said.

Let us all enjoy our fresh immunity, and prepare for when it fades. Unless Pfizer and Moderna can tailor the vaccine to combat delta or any coming variants, vaccinating our way out of this isn't going to work the way we all thought.


Vaccinated people are going to be vectors for this, and still be ending up in hospitals.
 

Weinie

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Let us all enjoy our fresh immunity, and prepare for when it fades. Unless Pfizer and Moderna can tailor the vaccine to combat delta or any coming variants, vaccinating our way out of this isn't going to work the way we all thought.


Vaccinated people are going to be vectors for this, and still be ending up in hospitals.
No, that was the way that you thought, and continually disabused us on here for our concerns. Vaccination for all by September was your mantra. Sunny ways.

I posted this here yesterday, in response to your post about my willingness to/the potential requirement for getting jabs every six months:

Except, that we in Canada are in the drivers seat, as you continually point out, WRT numbers in a global sense, but yet you can declare this is madness. So what happens when we have the Echo variant evolve outta Asia, and the Foxtrot variant evolve outta Buttphuckistan, both of which are more virulent/lethal and we don't evolve the vaccine? Increasing numbers of deaths, more lockdowns. It will destroy the global economy. We will be facing this for a considerable period of time given current sit, already seeing the numbers rise in any number of countries.

If, as you postulate, waning means minimal impact, so be it. I'm old, so I have some sense of caution.


You didn't respond, which was unusual. Perhaps you were busy, or didn't see my post.
 

Quirky

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I certainly hope not. My best friend refuses to get vaccinated. I worked with him. I've known him for 40 years. He lives just around the corner from me.
Sorry to say, your best friend is an idiot. Refusing to get vaccinated then using social medical services to keep him alive are the type we don’t need in this society.
 

Altair

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No, that was the way that you thought, and continually disabused us on here for our concerns. Vaccination for all by September was your mantra. Sunny ways.
We shall have vaccinations for all by September. That was the part I was not concerned about. How the vaccines preform was always a open question.
I posted this here yesterday, in response to your post about my willingness to/the potential requirement for getting jabs every six months:

Except, that we in Canada are in the drivers seat, as you continually point out, WRT numbers in a global sense, but yet you can declare this is madness. So what happens when we have the Echo variant evolve outta Asia, and the Foxtrot variant evolve outta Buttphuckistan, both of which are more virulent/lethal and we don't evolve the vaccine? Increasing numbers of deaths, more lockdowns. It will destroy the global economy. We will be facing this for a considerable period of time given current sit, already seeing the numbers rise in any number of countries.

If, as you postulate, waning means minimal impact, so be it. I'm old, so I have some sense of caution.
In an emergency situation, with a sense of urgency getting 66 million doses into people was achievable. But whether this is achievable on a consistent basis over the long term if this is endemic is another question.
You didn't respond, which was unusual. Perhaps you were busy, or didn't see my post.
I do try to respond to every notification I see, but I do miss the odd one. My apologies.
 

Brad Sallows

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>this is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated​


Almost as if vaccines have some efficacy at preventing infections. Now if only they mitigated the severity of cases, so that people would stop losing their nut over case counts.
 

Loachman

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lock unvaccinated people out of society for their own safety

What if the unvaccinated people do not want society worrying about their safety?

They're just as capable of making that decision for themselves as well as other life choices both major and minor.
 

Altair

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What if the unvaccinated people do not want society worrying about their safety?

They're just as capable of making that decision for themselves as well as other life choices both major and minor.
Then option 1.
 

lenaitch

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What if the unvaccinated people do not want society worrying about their safety?

They're just as capable of making that decision for themselves as well as other life choices both major and minor.

So an unvaccinated-by-choice person interacts with an unvaccinated-by-necessity (immunocompromised) person. Who gets to worry about their safety more?
 

PuckChaser

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If the vaccine doesn't stop COVID spread then it doesn't matter if someone is unvaccinated by choice, that immunocompronised person should protect themselves knowing their condition and wear a N95. If someone is immunocompromised they aren't just worrying about COVID, literally a rhinovirus could kill them.
 
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