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All things Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)

Humphrey Bogart

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The issue with lockdowns is once the disease becomes endemic, lockdowns are no longer effective as all they do is delay some deaths that will inevitably occur as soon as the vulnerable are reintroduced to the disease which has now achieved widespread circulation.

Certain isolated areas of the World will be able to keep the disease from becoming endemic (most of them are islands who can use their geographic advantage to tightly control their borders) but they will have to continue to fight a rear-guard action for a very long time. 

Atlantic Canada is going to be pooched long term because of this.  They will need to keep the Atlantic Bubble running long after everywhere else has gotten back to normal.

All of this is playing out as we speak and can be seen in all the trend lines.  The COVID death rate per day has remained much the same since the pandemic began but the disease continues to spread exponentially to ever greater numbers of people.

Every Country where the disease is now Endemic is going to have a death rate that is remarkably similar, regardless of how many lockdowns and Government interventions are carried out.

All this to say, Governments aren't going to micromanage their way out of the pandemic but they will certainly try.
 

Blackadder1916

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Another twist to the story.

Denmark to cull up to 17 million mink amid coronavirus fears
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54818615
Denmark will cull all its mink - as many as 17 million - after a mutated form of coronavirus that can spread to humans was found on mink farms.

Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said the mutated virus posed a "risk to the effectiveness" of a future Covid-19 vaccine.

Denmark is the world's biggest producer of mink fur and its main export markets are China and Hong Kong.

The culling began late last month, after many mink cases were detected.

Coronavirus cases have also been detected in farmed mink in the Netherlands and Spain since the pandemic began in Europe.

But cases are spreading fast in Denmark - 207 mink farms in Jutland are affected - and at least five cases of the new virus strain were found. Twelve people had become infected, the authorities said.

Prime Minister Frederiksen described the situation as "very, very serious". Danish police and army personnel will help to carry out the mass cull.

Ms Frederiksen cited a government report which said the mutated virus had been found to weaken the body's ability to form antibodies, potentially making the current vaccines under development for Covid-19 ineffective.

"We have a great responsibility towards our own population, but with the mutation that has now been found, we have an even greater responsibility for the rest of the world as well," she told a news conference.

Since the start of the pandemic Denmark has reported 52,265 human cases of Covid-19 and 733 deaths, data from Johns Hopkins University shows.



more at link
 

daftandbarmy

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Wow  :eek:

United States COVID-19 Cases and Deaths by County

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-map
 

brihard

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Similar to some of Mariomike’s posts regarding events in the US, looks like Montreal paramedics had, for five months this spring and summer, halted CPR/defib resuscitation efforts on cardiac flatlines.

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/montreal-paramedics-told-not-to-do-cpr-on-some-patients-for-months-due-to-covid-19-risks-1.5201791?cid=sm%3Atrueanthem%3Actvnews%3Apost&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1vNfm4D7Dewu4DbNPnrIt6TK_iDCv3FXgaAdUkJ8fPsKhy94xeuklLkAw
 

mariomike

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Brihard said:
Similar to some of Mariomike’s posts regarding events in the US, looks like Montreal paramedics had, for five months this spring and summer, halted CPR/defib resuscitation efforts on cardiac flatlines.

This was posted yesterday by the Toronto Paramedic union,

Our Toronto Paramedic members are reporting feeling exhausted, overwhelmed and at a breaking point due to the workload of the pandemic. We are requesting support from Council and Province to adequately staff the front line.
https://twitter.com/416TPSUnit/status/1330992265976815616

The only real sure thing in this town is when you dial 9-1-1 they send help. Police, Fire or Paramedic. But, even they have their breaking points.


 

OceanBonfire

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Dry run of handling an ultra-low temperature vaccine next week:

YapYmiw.png


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vaccine-distribution-plan-1.5826494

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-outline-plan-to-administer-first-covid-19-vaccines-launching-dry-run-next-week-1.5215641

https://globalnews.ca/news/7499451/canada-coronavirus-vaccine-in-place-christmas/
 

Scott

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How long before the troops discover the pure joy of dry ice bombs?
 

daftandbarmy

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mariomike said:
This was posted yesterday by the Toronto Paramedic union,

The only real sure thing in this town is when you dial 9-1-1 they send help. Police, Fire or Paramedic. But, even they have their breaking points.

And it sounds like the job is getting vastly more complicated:

COVID-19 infection rate among B.C. paramedics almost zero


When the pandemic hit, the agency was forced to add levels of protection for paramedics and their patients. That protection has been credited with keeping infection rates among members to almost zero.

With 30 years of experience as a paramedic, Brad Cameron, B.C. Emergency Health Services superintendent of patient care delivery for Greater Victoria, has never experienced this. “It has added a level of complexity our paramedics have never seen before.”

On average, B.C. Emergency Health Services (BCEHS) sees about 1,400 calls a day across the province. Of the 4,500 employees, eight have tested positive for COVID-19 – one of which was on the Island – since the start of the pandemic to the end of October. But of those eight positive cases, seven were found to have contracted the virus from family members – not on the job.

Unlike the sterile environments found in hospitals, members of B.C. Ambulance Service are entering homes and encountering an “enormous viral load,” Cameron explained. “It’s not the same environment … they can’t slip up.”

https://www.vicnews.com/news/covid-19-infection-rate-among-b-c-paramedics-almost-zero/
 

mariomike

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daftandbarmy said:
And it sounds like the job is getting vastly more complicated:

According to a recent study led by Dr. David Prezant of Montefiore Medical Center, the FDNY’s chief medical officer and Dr. Michael Weiden of NYU Langone/FDNY Medical Officer, uniformed members of the FDNY ( firefighters and paramedics ) overall were 15 times more likely to contract COVID-19 than the general public. More staggering was the finding that FDNY paramedics were an additional five times more likely than FDNY’s firefighters to contract COVID.
https://openres.ersjournals.com/content/erjor/early/2020/10/15/23120541.00610-2020.full.pdf





 

HiTechComms

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So elderly are dying that their immune system cannot fight off.
Canada and most western countries have a lot of "Dry Tinder" there hasn't been a bad flue season in a long time what would have claimed a lot of these frail sick people.

One thing that no one is looking at the demographics. The idea that people will live forever is absurd.
average age
Italy 45.4
Canada 40.5
USA 37.9
Spain 44.9
India 26.8
SA 27.6

We have a problem in demographics. Our age pyramid is reversed. We have a lot of old people in the western countries which will inevitably mean more deaths.

Not to mention Western countries also have higher amount of comorbidity not only among the old but younger which are more fatter and lazier in general.

My question is: If war break outs some where are everyone gone have the same moral virtue to not send you people to their deaths?

 

Remius

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If war breaks out the intent would be to send whoever we are at war with to their deaths. 
 

Remius

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HiTechComms said:
So elderly are dying that their immune system cannot fight off.
Canada and most western countries have a lot of "Dry Tinder" there hasn't been a bad flue season in a long time what would have claimed a lot of these frail sick people.

One thing that no one is looking at the demographics. The idea that people will live forever is absurd.
average age
Italy 45.4
Canada 40.5
USA 37.9
Spain 44.9
India 26.8
SA 27.6

We have a problem in demographics. Our age pyramid is reversed. We have a lot of old people in the western countries which will inevitably mean more deaths.

Not to mention Western countries also have higher amount of comorbidity not only among the old but younger which are more fatter and lazier in general.

My question is: If war break outs some where are everyone gone have the same moral virtue to not send you people to their deaths?

So I’ll try and answer in my own way some of what you are saying. 

No one lives forever.  Exactly.  Life is precious and we should endeavour to extend ones life as long as we can provided is can be lived with quality.  Being old should not be a disqualifier to being able to live longer.

As for the war comment I’m not sure the analogy is equal at all if I understand what you are trying to compare. 

But...

We send our military into harms way all the time.  We don’t try to send them to their deaths.  Or leave them to die either.  We actually try to prevent that part.  Actively and passively.  We try to equip them with the training and equipment to avoid death. 

I would have the same moral virtue if we just left our pers to die or opted to not give them the proper safety precautions to keep them alive and prevent their deaths if we did send them to war. 
 

Old Sweat

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And in case you were beginning to think common sense - which isn't all that common - would prevail, this story from Global News reproduced under the Fair Comment provisions of the Copyright Act, should return you to reality.
CSIS warns about conspiracy theories linking COVID-19 to 5G technology

By Stewart Bell  Global News
Posted December 4, 2020 4:00 am
Updated December 3, 2020 8:50 pm

CSIS says foreign actors engaging in COVID-19 disinformation

Conspiracy theories linking 5G technology to COVID-19 have become so pervasive that Canada’s intelligence service is warning of possible extremist attacks on sites associated with the wireless network.

A confidential Canadian Security Intelligence Service report obtained by Global News anticipates that “ideologically motivated violent” (IMV) extremists may target 5G sites.

“As companies begin 5G infrastructure construction in earnest, extremists from across the IMV extremist landscape could engage in acts of arson and vandalism against that infrastructure,” the report said.

The report was among a cache of documents on the national security implications of COVID-19 released to Global News under the Access to Information Act.

The documents show CSIS has been monitoring the pandemic for the Canadian government and its international partners, focusing particularly on COVID-19 disinformation spread by authoritarian states and extremist groups.

“Given the extraordinary effect the COVID-19 pandemic has created on the lives of individuals across the world, CSIS is mindful that certain threat actors, across multiple threat landscapes, may seek to take advantage to advance their own interests,” CSIS spokesperson John Townsend said when asked about the documents.

COVID-19 conspiracy theories have been circulated by governments trying to deflect blame for their failures, and extremist groups trying to capitalize on public anxiety.

Among the more popular is that the coronavirus is caused by radiation poisoning from 5G technology. Another claims governments are using lockdowns to build 5G infrastructure.

Perhaps the most elaborate asserts that 5G was designed by governments to depopulate the world, and is part of a broader conspiracy theory called Agenda 21 that imagines the United Nations is trying to establish a new world order.

None have any scientific validity, but white supremacists, neo-Nazis and anarchists have all adopted COVID-19 conspiracy theories to varying degrees, while the anti-vaxxer movement has promoted the notion that 5G is responsible for spreading COVID-19.

“Other conspiracy theories targeting COVID-19/5G have emerged from various online anti-capitalist, anti-technology, and environmental groups/communities,” according to the CSIS report.

A “not insignificant minority of Canadians” falsely believe in a connection between the COVID-19 pandemic and 5G technology, according to a CSIS intelligence assessment dated May 1, 2020.

“In Canada, physical opposition to 5G infrastructure is significantly less when compared to recent actions in the U.K. and Europe,” the report said.

But it said “Canadian-based online communities” were promoting the 5G conspiracy and that far-right extremist groups were trying to “capitalize on ‘5G hysteria.’”

The report noted that a cellphone tower in Laval, Que., was the target of a “significant attack” in April that caused $1 million in damage.

Another half-dozen towers were torched north of Montreal in early May. Two people were charged. None of the towers were associated with 5G networks.

A May 17 post on a QAnon Quebec Facebook page showed a cell tower burning in Italy, and generated comments such as “burn them all” and instructions on how to do so, according to the Middle East Media Research Institute.

“CSIS is aware of how conspiracy theories have the potential to inspire individuals to take violent extremist action,” Townsend said.

A terrorism expert said the 5G conspiracy theories that were popular early in the pandemic had declined as new ones had emerged within the anti-mask and anti-lockdown movements.

“As the vaccine roll-out begins, I think we should be prepared for a whole new set of conspiracies related to the vaccine as well,” said Amarnath Amarasingam, a Queen’s University professor who specializes in extremist groups.

Research has found the more people believe in conspiracy theories, the more real-world impact it has in their lives, he said, adding they were less likely to vaccinate their children or believe experts.

“So, while it would be great to ignore these fringe ideas, they sadly often have outsized impact,” Amarasingam said.

The recent wave of conspiracy theories has also been a driver of violence, he said.
“We never really saw that with past conspiracies related to 9/11 or the moon landing or the JFK assassination.”

Both 3G and 4G technology were also the subject of conspiracy theories that linked them to cancer.

The 5G conspiracy theory appears to have originated with an article in January 2020, with an article in an obscure Belgian newspaper that was soon deleted.

Its impact was felt particularly in the United Kingdom, where there have been dozens of attacks on telecommunications masts.

“Conspiracy theories linking COVID-19 and 5G have become extremely popular online and within multiple portions of the IMV landscape,” CSIS wrote.

“Within this milieu are individuals who engage in, encourage or support attacks on 5G infrastructure, and harass telecom workers,” CSIS wrote in the report, Conspiracy Theories, COVID-19 and Threats to 5G Infrastructure.

Stewart.Bell@globalnews.ca
 

mariomike

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HiTechComms said:
We have a lot of old people in the western countries which will inevitably mean more deaths.

I read some younger people jokingly refer to Covid as "Boomer remover".
 

HiTechComms

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Remius said:
So I’ll try and answer in my own way some of what you are saying. 

No one lives forever.  Exactly.  Life is precious and we should endeavour to extend ones life as long as we can provided is can be lived with quality.  Being old should not be a disqualifier to being able to live longer.

As for the war comment I’m not sure the analogy is equal at all if I understand what you are trying to compare. 

But...

We send our military into harms way all the time.  We don’t try to send them to their deaths.  Or leave them to die either.  We actually try to prevent that part.  Actively and passively.  We try to equip them with the training and equipment to avoid death. 

I would have the same moral virtue if we just left our pers to die or opted to not give them the proper safety precautions to keep them alive and prevent their deaths if we did send them to war.

Well in a world where hard choices need to be made. Benefit cost analysis. I hate making Moral arguments because morals are just like beauty, they are in the eye of the beholder.

I think the WAR analogy is quite appropriate.

War = Do we sacrifice young to possibly stop greater harm?
Covid = Do we sacrifice the old and feeble to possible stop greater harm?

My family has lived passed First war, 2nd War, Hitler, Stalin, Years of communist occupation and uprisings. Now your telling people, you cannot see your loved ones because they might get sick and die? What happens if they want to? Isn't euthanasia legal in Canada?

My grandmother is almost 90 and she ended up in hospital on unrelated illness and she ended up being isolated for 5 weeks. She had no contact, she was distraught but she made it. I pay for the caretakers of my grandparents and it was their choice that if they get sick they will not call doctors or medical help. They want to die on their own terms. They still live on their own.

Ironically Canadians scream morally virtue about saving the vulnerable, yet the same people dumped their loved ones into LTR and barely visit. Where have the bulk of deaths occurred? If anything the State did a good job killing the vulnerable by putting sick back into LTR to save and ration the healthcare. Healthcare that Canadians believe is a right.. (Positive rights are an asinine idea). IMHO any one that dumps their loved ones in an LTR don't care and are hypocrites when it comes to protecting the vulnerable. I have family that work in LTR and barely any one visits these people before all of this started and now every one is outraged because Nana might die. Don't get me started on elder abuse.

Look at the percentages and stats.. LTR almost account for 80% of deaths. The average LTR stay is 2.5 years and that's before COVID. Any illness or injury is pretty well much a possible ender for people in LTR.

As some one that immigrated to Canada from a Socialist Utopia, I have noticed that Canadians are far more likely and voluntarily are willing to give up their own freedoms and rights in order to feel safe. I worked in Canadian elections and trust me when I say this, 60% of this country would willingly vote them selves into communism.

Western civilization is slowly descending into moral tyranny. Well at least I have a dual citizenship and can leave if I have too, can you say the same?

Does the government exist to protect people for them selves or people hurting other people?

Does the state have any right to tell anyone what they can do and what risks they want to voluntarily take?

*shrug*
 

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HiTechComms said:
IMHO any one that dumps their loved ones in an LTR don't care and are hypocrites when it comes to protecting the vulnerable.

Well then I guess my father, siblings and I are hypocrites. After my mother had a series of strokes, she had to be put in a care home so she could be properly looked after.  No one in my family was medically trained (or even physically able at the time) to take care of her hygiene needs, among other things.  Let's just say I am glad that both of my parents have passed away.

Now your telling people, you cannot see your loved ones because they might get sick and die?  What happens if they want to? Isn't euthanasia legal in Canada?

Fine, go see your loved ones.  Can you guarantee that if you get COVID, you'll only pass it on to family members and no one else??

You know what the biggest problem is?  Some people are just selfish.  You're right about one thing; many people are bitching about not being able to do something that they wouldn't have done (or even wanted to do) before COVID hit.
 

reveng

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Remius said:
If war breaks out the intent would be to send whoever we are at war with to their deaths.

If war breaks out, the intent would be to hide behind our neighbours to the south. You know, the ones that everyone bad mouths constantly. The alternative would be to be crushed.
 

mariomike

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HiTechComms said:
Well at least I have a dual citizenship and can leave if I have too, can you say the same?

Sure. Got my EU passport. Married to a US citizen. Always wanted to live in Arizona.

PMedMoe said:
Let's just say I am glad that both of my parents have passed away.

My mother is 88 and still an active homeowner. Some retirement homes are very nice.

"It's a retirement community!"  :)

PMedMoe said:
You know what the biggest problem is?  Some people are just selfish. 

Ain't that the truth.

What surprised me was I thought this would bring people together. Like during the war. Unfortunately, it seems to have had the opposite effect.
 

OldSolduer

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HiTechComms said:
So elderly are dying that their immune system cannot fight off.
Canada and most western countries have a lot of "Dry Tinder" there hasn't been a bad flue season in a long time what would have claimed a lot of these frail sick people.

One thing that no one is looking at the demographics. The idea that people will live forever is absurd.
average age
Italy 45.4
Canada 40.5
USA 37.9
Spain 44.9
India 26.8
SA 27.6

We have a problem in demographics. Our age pyramid is reversed. We have a lot of old people in the western countries which will inevitably mean more deaths.

Not to mention Western countries also have higher amount of comorbidity not only among the old but younger which are more fatter and lazier in general.

My question is: If war break outs some where are everyone gone have the same moral virtue to not send you people to their deaths?

I guess no one in your family or friends circle  has COVID. Your judgements are harsh and at odds with the majority on here. Have a good day.
 

mariomike

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reveng said:
If war breaks out, the intent would be to hide behind our neighbours to the south.

Canadians fought alongside Americans.

Edit to add:

I'm old enough to remember when a lot of "our neighbours to the south" came up here to hide out from the Draft.

I also read, "about 30,000 Canadians volunteered to fight in southeast Asia"

"One hundred ten Canadians died in Vietnam, and seven remain listed as missing in action."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Vietnam_War#Canadians_in_the_U.S._military

 
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