All things LASIK surgery (aircrew/other -- merged)

[xo31@711ret]

:  Weeeeell,... don't that just figure..... 
I retired after 24+years as a medic out of Gagetown in 06. I was always a strong V3; almost a V4. ( Doing some reserves class A now in Quebec). I've been trying saving up the 5 grand or more that it"ll probably cost me once we head back to NB after niner-dom finishes her 20 regs.

 

[George Wallace]

My guess is in those days the common foot soldier was more or less cannon fodder.  Forming square or line isn't my idea of a smart battle plan, and if honour and tradition dictates the weapon equivalent of fisticuffs, then maybe the glasses were the least of their concerns.  Besides, the comparison isn't entirely accurate because back then there was no alternative for correcting your vision.  Now we have three methods to correct vision, and some are not only cheaper than others, but they also have shorter recovery times as well.

Kiljoy.  You're just no fun.    :-[

 

[PuckChaser]

My personal take is that it will not be for everyone - if you meet the standard for your trade there's no need for the CF to pay to upgrade your vision; if you've fallen below the trade requirement and are occupationally qualified it might be a worthwhile investment for DND/CF to make.

I would have to say that would be a horrible position to take. The cost of glasses and prescription inserts is probably significantly more than the short term cost of LVC and an optometrist visit every year afterwards. I personally had 3 sets of glasses, 1 set of inserts for BEW and 1 set of gas mask inserts gone through, and I was only entitled for eyewear at CF expense for 2 years before my LVC. Unless the CF gets a special government "discount" of +$5000 on top of the normal cost to civvie land, it'll be a money saver in the long run. This being said, it can be open to abuse for people joining and then getting out right after LVC, and would have to have strict caveats as to when the surgery can be performed.

 

[KingKikapu]

I would have to say that would be a horrible position to take. The cost of glasses and prescription inserts is probably significantly more than the short term cost of LVC and an optometrist visit every year afterwards. I personally had 3 sets of glasses, 1 set of inserts for BEW and 1 set of gas mask inserts gone through, and I was only entitled for eyewear at CF expense for 2 years before my LVC. Unless the CF gets a special government "discount" of +$5000 on top of the normal cost to civvie land, it'll be a money saver in the long run. This being said, it can be open to abuse for people joining and then getting out right after LVC, and would have to have strict caveats as to when the surgery can be performed.

Well, that would be true if we assumed that eyes don't change after surgery (which they unfortunately do), and that the CF will still have these people for the long term.  If they're only in for another 5 years, I do not expect them to make their money back.  Otherwise I agree with what you're saying.

Mr. Killjoy.  :-[

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . .  The cost of glasses and prescription inserts is probably significantly more than the short term cost of LVC and an optometrist visit every year afterwards. . . .

And your assumption is probably incorrect.

Though I'm no longer serving and have not had anything to do with a cost analysis of optical supplies for the military in over twenty years, I'll wade in with a quick guesstimate.

Assumptions:  (make changes to the numbers where you know actual figures or guess better than me)
Total number of pers eligible for optical benefits -  75,000
Pers needing glasses - 30,000  (40 to 60 percent is usually quoted as percentage of population with some vision deficit)
Pers who could benefit from vision corrective surgery - 18,000 (picked a figure of 60 percent of glasses wearers out of my ***)

Average cost of individual benefit or procedure: (guesses but they are based on some knowledge of the industry)
Current CF optical benefit - $485 every two years
Cost of vision corrective surgery - $3500

Total annual cost for vision correction
by glasses
$7,275,000 (30,000 x $485  = $14,550,000 every two years)

by surgery
$63,000,000  (18,000 x $3500 in year one to establish a base of currently serving pers with corrected vision)
$6,300,000 (each year following due to pers replacement rate of 10 percent - 1800 pers)
$2,900,000 (for optical supplies for 12,000 pers who did not have surgery)

 

[George Wallace]

And your assumption is probably incorrect.

Though I'm no longer serving and have not had anything to do with a cost analysis of optical supplies for the military in over twenty years, I'll wade in with a quick guesstimate.

Assumptions:  (make changes to the numbers where you know actual figures or guess better than me)
Total number of pers eligible for optical benefits -  75,000
Pers needing glasses - 30,000  (40 to 60 percent is usually quoted as percentage of population with some vision deficit)
Pers who could benefit from vision corrective surgery - 18,000 (picked a figure of 60 percent of glasses wearers out of my ***)

Average cost of individual benefit or procedure: (guesses but they are based on some knowledge of the industry)
Current CF optical benefit - $485 every two years
Cost of vision corrective surgery - $3500

Total annual cost for vision correction
by glasses
$7,275,000 (30,000 x $485  = $14,550,000 every two years)

by surgery
$63,000,000  (18,000 x $3500 in year one to establish a base of currently serving pers with corrected vision)
$6,300,000 (each year following due to pers replacement rate of 10 percent - 1800 pers)
$2,900,000 (for optical supplies for 12,000 pers who did not have surgery)

Question for you:

Why did you only calculate the prescription glasses group for two years, and not multiply it by a minimum of 13 times (to cover 25 yrs service); while you calculated the surgery and follow-ups for each year following surgery?

$14,550,000 every two years X  13 (min.) = $189,150,000.00

 

[dapaterson]

He was doing annualize costs:

Glasses at $7.3M per year, surgery plus glasses at $9.2M per year, with an additional $63M one-time cost for everyone now serving.

Thus, roughly $1.9M per year more to move to surgery, as not everyone is suitable for surgery, and some would still require collective lenses after surgery.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I do wonder what will be the fate of those who fall into that small percentage of "complications".

LASIK Complications - Statistics

More than one million patients undergo the LASIK procedure in the United States each year. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) reports that LASIK eye surgery complications occur in 1 to 5 percent of cases. According to the FDA’s LASIK surgery statistics:

    * Glare and sensitivity to light affect 1.7 percent of LASIK patients.
    * Visual fluctuations occur in 2.6 percent of LASIK patients.
    * Halos around light sources are experienced by 3.5 percent of patients.
    * About 3 percent of patients report vision worse than before LASIK.

If this is to be a voluntary procedure, what happens if someone ends up with vision that actually makes them ineligible for their trade?  Would that be a service related "injury"?  Would they be entitled to compensation?

 

[dapaterson]

The RFP is for program development.  Issues identified include "Identifying best practices for handling complications and identifying potential liability issues".

Still a lot of development work to be done for policy before we can begin zapping anybody at Crown expense...

 

[PuckChaser]

I do wonder what will be the fate of those who fall into that small percentage of "complications".

LASIK Complications - Statistics

If this is to be a voluntary procedure, what happens if someone ends up with vision that actually makes them ineligible for their trade?  Would that be a service related "injury"?  Would they be entitled to compensation?

It is already an at-your-own risk procedure, members who want LASIK need a memo signed by their CO stating they accept responsibility should they become unfit for service after the surgery and any associated costs with the surgery are at their own expense. I don't see this policy changing much, other than the surgery being covered by DND medical plans.

 

[dapaterson]

The second DND provides you a service they take on liability for its successful completion.  Hence one of the reasons for treading softly on this one.

 

[Tharris]

I just had the procedure done a week today and it was well worth the cost (especially since I was V5).  Besides a 90 day wait before the powers that be will allow me to train, so it all seems pretty straightforward.  For me it was simply a question of how much I wanted to join up. 

T.

 

[Klinkaroo]

In a post before you said that you were able to send in your paperwork after 7 weeks. Can someone please give me a semi-formal answer, because I heard anything between 3-6 months before I can even get the form sent in. If I understand from you, once the optometrist says I'm stable and good to go I can get the form signed, sent and my med cat changed in a between 5 days and month long waiting period...

BTW Faster I get that done, faster I can get my CT to AES OP moving so I really would like to know what is the fastest I can get this stuff done at.

 

[nickinguelph]

In a post before you said that you were able to send in your paperwork after 7 weeks. Can someone please give me a semi-formal answer, because I heard anything between 3-6 months before I can even get the form sent in. If I understand from you, once the optometrist says I'm stable and good to go I can get the form signed, sent and my med cat changed in a between 5 days and month long waiting period...

BTW Faster I get that done, faster I can get my CT to AES OP moving so I really would like to know what is the fastest I can get this stuff done at.

Well, unfortunately the original information that was given to me was not for Air Crew Status.  The waiting period after laser eye surgery for Aircrew is 6 months, and Medical will not even consider it sooner.
Originally I was under the assumption that I could have my vision re-evaluated within 3 months, and it can be done just not for Aircrew, if your doctor signs off on your eyes.  I went through the whole process only to have Medical turn it down stating that not enough time had passed.

 

[knownothing89]

Hi. I've been reading that part of training involves exposure to eye-irritating gas (cs gas?) and that troopers will often rub their eyes, etc. I've also read that some people undergo LASIK procedures before or after enrollment in the military. Before I apply to ROTP (I hope i get in..), I'm planning on getting laser eyes surgery to correct my horrible vision (my worst eye is -5.50  :-\; recruiters told me I might only qualify as V4) I was just wondering if having a corneal flap (which I've also read never fully 'heals') and being exposed to rugged environments and/or eye irritants is advised against. Thanks for any helpful answers.

-some wannabe

 

[Scott]

Sounds more like a question for your optometrist and also one for the recruiters.

FYI, there are other options available http://www.tlcvision.com/what_prk.fxml that offer surgeries with no flaps created. It boils down to personal preference and how much you are willing to invest in your eyes. FYI, you only get two of them and if you frig them up you might never get 'em back. To me, spending on laser is a no brainer, being frivolous is stupid.

 

[Toad]

Well I got PRK (boxing- too much risk of a flap) in November 08, and January 09..I'll say my eyes are both 20/20 now..but the risk of scarring is slightly higher, the pain after the surgery lasts about 5-8 days instead of 4-5 hours, and your vision improves over months, not a week. As well, you'll be on drops for a couple of months/eye just in case that sort of thing bothers you..and for me it was cheaper than the lasik by about 600 dollars overall.

Personally, I think it was well worth the money I paid, and worth the shitty recovery. Scott is right though, talk with your optometrist, and talk with the office that does the lasik/prk, to see if you can get the surgery.

 

[MikeL]

I got LASIK an did the gas hut a few months later, no problems. But rubbing your eyes after the gas hut is a bad idea for everyone. Theres a lot of people in the Military(ours and other nations)who've gotten LASIK an PRK done an as far as I know there been no issues, atleast nothing I've heard/read. If there was a good chance it would mess you up during Military service I don't think the Military would allow people to get it done.

As far as I know my cornea flap is completly sealed back to my eyeball. Probably be something to ask the optromitrist, an ask the question post LASIK to make sure your eyes are good to go, etc.

 

[Rinker]

Well this question hasn't seemed to be asked before. I start my bmq august for the trade I want. My eyes are V3, but I would really like to not have to wear glasses. I was told it will be fine for what I am doing at this stage. But I would like to get my eyes zapped once in, without seriously affecting my training/unit. I have no problem waiting a year or two, but how long of a break would I need to take from training to get my eyes fixed. And would they let me once in the infantry being through basic and all of that other stuff.

 

[bdave]

Is anyone doing pkr or everyone does LASIK?
Wouldn't pkr be better?