All things beardy-2005 to 2018 (merged)
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Halifax Tar
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LogOLife said:
RCN cant have a beard at sea... Although more scuttlebutt says that may be changing too...
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sidemount said:
If the RCAF doesn't want in so be it, make it a CANARMYGEN/CANFORGEN. The RCN already has regs for beards...
Eye In The Sky
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Well, the BOOTFORGEN didn't apply to the Air Ops capbadge types for the most part, and it went forward. I know more than 1 member of the aircrew world who only shave when they have to fly, and I've flown with aircrew who flew with beards for specific reasons. Going off recent history of policy decisions, the WEEDFORGEN also was restrictive to aircrew specifically in the RCAF, yet the brush that applied to us didn't get used on 'everyone', so if there is common sense in policy for things like weed, I'm hopeful it will also be the case with beards. Just because I don't get to pick my own combat boots, can't partake in legal use of cannabis and have to be clean shaven for flying (specifically related to mask/face seal concerns using emergency oxygen systems) doesn't mean it also makes sense to place the same restrictions on all; BOOTFORGEN and WEEDFORGEN are examples of 'restrictions for some doesn't equal restrictions for all'.
I can't speak for the RCAF Comd/CWO but there are air ops folks out there with beards now...
I can't speak for the RCAF Comd/CWO but there are air ops folks out there with beards now...
OldSolduer
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I’m having a chuckle - beards and bongs all in the same week. 
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Hamish Seggie said:I’m having a chuckle - beards and bongs all in the same week.
Not yet, but I certainly hope in the next two days the beardforgen drops....
daftandbarmy
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Old EO Tech said:
Is there any subliminal messaging in the fact that DOPEGEN came out before FUZZFACEGEN?
daftandbarmy said:
The Weed Standing Orders were driven by an external timeline imposed by Parliament. Lacking that imposed timeline, the CF would probably still be continuing its lengthy internal debate on the matter of military marijuana, as we now appear to be doing on military facial hair, continuing a debate that has roots back to before the Amish shaved their moustaches.
OldSolduer
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sidemount said:
You guys have had a rough time. I know the feeling.
Eye In The Sky
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Interesting story WRT to the "aircrew can't wear beards" and whether the RCAF is for/against beards for all mbr's posted to RCAF units...
https://army.ca/forums/threads/128951/post-1548283.html#msg1548283
https://army.ca/forums/threads/128951/post-1548283.html#msg1548283
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Regarding the topic of this discussion, "Air Canada pilots get permission to wear beards".
Air Canada pilots are members of a union/association.
https://www.acpa.ca/
Grooming decisions ( hair, beards, tattoos etc. ) , can be traced back to the 1972 arbitration regarding the Toronto firefighter with ( very short ) sideburns.
Wearing a respirator was part of his job.
The Ontario Labour Relations Board ( OLRB ) arbitrator ruled, "as long as the employee performs the job or work for which he has been hired, the employer has no authority to impose his personal views of appearance or dress upon the employee."
http://www.scarboroughfirefighters.org/notice_files/Side%20Burns_up-Scarborough__Borough__and_I.A.F.F.__Local_626.pdf
More liberal grooming standards may seem a positive step forward by some.
But, may not be seen the same way by some taxpayers ( and possibly some airline passengers / customers. )
Reference,
QUOTE
1) Studying public perceptions of police grooming standards
https://myessays100.wordpress.com/2016/04/16/us-police-grooming-standards/
Summary: The response of the police administrators to the challenges of the grooming standards by arguing that more liberal standards would erode public respect for the police is given. The results of the study show the public's opposition on the grooming standards and the reasons for that opposition.
2) "Research suggests that grooming and appearance features (e.g., facial hair, visible tattoos, dishevelled clothing) can negatively impact opinions of professionalism and trustworthiness," says an internal document.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-man-bun-tattoo-survey-1.4612725
Goatees say "untrustworthy." So do soul patches.
Appearance can affect how a jury assesses an officer's testimony in court, for instance.
END QUOTE
Air Canada pilots are members of a union/association.
https://www.acpa.ca/
Grooming decisions ( hair, beards, tattoos etc. ) , can be traced back to the 1972 arbitration regarding the Toronto firefighter with ( very short ) sideburns.
Wearing a respirator was part of his job.
The Ontario Labour Relations Board ( OLRB ) arbitrator ruled, "as long as the employee performs the job or work for which he has been hired, the employer has no authority to impose his personal views of appearance or dress upon the employee."
http://www.scarboroughfirefighters.org/notice_files/Side%20Burns_up-Scarborough__Borough__and_I.A.F.F.__Local_626.pdf
More liberal grooming standards may seem a positive step forward by some.
But, may not be seen the same way by some taxpayers ( and possibly some airline passengers / customers. )
Reference,
QUOTE
1) Studying public perceptions of police grooming standards
https://myessays100.wordpress.com/2016/04/16/us-police-grooming-standards/
Summary: The response of the police administrators to the challenges of the grooming standards by arguing that more liberal standards would erode public respect for the police is given. The results of the study show the public's opposition on the grooming standards and the reasons for that opposition.
2) "Research suggests that grooming and appearance features (e.g., facial hair, visible tattoos, dishevelled clothing) can negatively impact opinions of professionalism and trustworthiness," says an internal document.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-man-bun-tattoo-survey-1.4612725
Goatees say "untrustworthy." So do soul patches.
Appearance can affect how a jury assesses an officer's testimony in court, for instance.
END QUOTE
Considering that the Indian Air Force have allowed beards for years, including for pilots of supersonic fighters, and their pilots are still breathing, I thought it was pretty clear that Air Canada's beard restriction was always more of a fashion/tradition thing than an actual flight safety issue. But now there is actual SFU research that backs up the experience of India.
Hey, I'm all for uniforms and clothing restrictions in the workplace, but there's a difference between professional appearance requirements, which is a fashion issue, and operational requirements, which is a safety issue. Air Canada has for years been calling something a safety requirement, when it was really a fashion requirement, and that simply wasn't right.
The NHL probably has it right. Helmets on the ice are a workplace safety requirement that is imposed by the league. Wearing jacket and tie to the game is a fashion requirement which is explicitly written into the collective bargaining agreement.
Hey, I'm all for uniforms and clothing restrictions in the workplace, but there's a difference between professional appearance requirements, which is a fashion issue, and operational requirements, which is a safety issue. Air Canada has for years been calling something a safety requirement, when it was really a fashion requirement, and that simply wasn't right.
The NHL probably has it right. Helmets on the ice are a workplace safety requirement that is imposed by the league. Wearing jacket and tie to the game is a fashion requirement which is explicitly written into the collective bargaining agreement.
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