All Memo Templates: (AVOTP, ED&T, File Number, OJT, OT, Release, Retention)

[stellarpanther]

Normally, as it is addressed to the CO, your CoC will minute it with their recommendations and he agrees or disagrees.

Your excuse of it being a weekend, is lame.

When I constantly see officers from other sections getting their CoC's recommending a short day for working a few hours extra it doesn't seem lame.  Numerous times I have seen officers submit a leave pass for 1 or 2 annual days and have the approving authority ink amend it to short leave. 

 

[PMedMoe]

I agree with compensation too.  If everyone worked Saturday, fine.  But if only a few did, a good CO (IMO) would have offered the short day without a request. 

 

[George Wallace]

Disagree.  I have rarely worked 8-4, 9-5 or any 8-hour "shifts".  And it applies to most people I know involved in operations.  But to be at work for the sake of being at work is silly.

Sorry to disagree with you, but the Military does not work 5 day weeks.  It is 24 and 7.  That means that on weekends, someone is always on duty, while the majority are off.  If in this case, if the member wants to apply at the last minute for Leave to avoid a Weekend Duty, then that person is shirking their responsibilities and forcing another member to be called in to work.  Is it fair to all members of a unit if certain self entitled members do not feel they should work on weekends or holidays?  Sorry, this excuse that it is a "weekend" does not cut it with me.  This says a lot about the member. 

Should a member be compensated for working a weekend or Holiday as a Duty?  That is up to the unit, be it a buck sheesh day off, a Short, or whatever. 

In this case, the OP has come across as that member who feels so privileged that they don't feel that they need to do their share of Duties.  That is my impression.

 

[SupersonicMax]

If the unit has its shit together, it will have a schedule for duties that will also include days off to compensate and have the same amount of days off as if they were working normal workweeks, thus avoiding "dumping" duties onto others (this is actually in the CAF Leave Manual).  That is certainly how we work with our NCMs and for Officers, we leave it up to them to take compensatory days off if they need them. 

At the end of the day, as long as the work is completed in a timely manner, there is no reason to deny such a request.

 

[Shamrock]

As an adjt, I would routinely answer on the CO's behalf. Some of this included the delegation to approve or deny requests for leave. If perhaps there was something particularly unusual about the request, either a glowing recommendation or personally compelling reason, I'd send it up. But a 1:1 unsupported by the chain, few COs care to see that.

 

[Tibbson]

If the memo was addressed to the CO then the CoC should minute it however they want but it should go to the CO, or his/designate, for a final decission.  In my mind, to intercept it and send it back without the COs consideration is no different then some employee with Canada Post deciding what mail you get or not.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If the unit has its shit together, it will have a schedule for duties that will also include days off to compensate and have the same amount of days off as if they were working normal workweeks, thus avoiding "dumping" duties onto others (this is actually in the CAF Leave Manual).  That is certainly how we work with our NCMs and for Officers, we leave it up to them to take compensatory days off if they need them. 

At the end of the day, as long as the work is completed in a timely manner, there is no reason to deny such a request.

Max, you really have to broaden your horizons.

The complete CAF is not light blue, no matter whether you want it to be or not.

Yes, it's nice to be accommodated for doing duty outside the norm, but it's not mandatory.

Never, in my whole career did I receive CTO for any duty I did. That includes Regimental, Base Duty, or working the flight line on the weekend. In the later case, it was part of a scheduled rotation, if you pulled the weekend, too bad, everyone had to do it. I also came in two hours early on Mon, Wed and Friday to LOX the Sqn. I went home the same time as the rest that worked a regular 8.

One size does not fit all. Different tasks, different elements, different units, different states of readiness and different types of operations. I could go on, however I think you get my point.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

To the OP.

If they are dicking you around with your memo, just ask to see the CO. They cannot deny that request.

 

[Old EO Tech]

19.12 - COMMUNICATION WITH THE COMMANDING OFFICER

An officer or non-commissioned member may, upon application, see the member's commanding officer on any personal matter.

And this QR&O spells out pretty clearing your right to communicate with your CO.  So if a memo is being ignored, exercise this right.

 

[Good2Golf]

I attempted to submit a memo and leave pass to the CO for a short day and my chain of command (WO and Adjt) wrote "not supported" and gave it back to me.  When I asked why it didn't go to the CO for her to decide, I was told they don't have to.  Is that true that they don't need to forward it and does anyone have a ref I can use?

It should get to the CO, but with minutes as each supr in the CoC deems appropriate.

So what's the story with your sub-unit CoC?  Why are they not supportive?  Is their lack of support a complete "out of the blue" surprise to you?  Did you work a full "8-hour day" on Saturday, or was it something less than a "full day" but something worthy of your CoC tracking for further compensation at an appropriate point?  If you have pitched in meaningfully to help over a period that was not within a unit's normal work routine, then the best approach is at the lowest level possible working out your work tempo to give due consideration to the rescheduled time you worked.  This is something that should happen more as a matter of course, than your having to ask either for immediate supervisory chain for consideration to adjust your work tempo, or as it your right, the CO for a day of short.

Take it for what it's worth, but if I ever had a member ask me (via memo, thru CoC) for a day of short, I would invite the member, his/her immediate supervisor, the OC and the RSM to come together and the member make their case to me.  It wasn't to be unsupportive, but it set the tone so that: a) there weren't fluff requests for compensation, and b) that the CoC was doing an appropriately good job tracking the level of effort of their subordinates.  In my tenure of command, I had precisely two such requests, very early into my command.  One was valid and one wasn't.  All understood clearly my intent on recognition of effort thereafter, and they all understood my methodology on how I used short leave to acknowledge/recognize effort.  To be clear, my intent did NOT include a direct 1:1 replacement of hours worked out of schedule, but rather an accumulation of effort that warranted acknowledgement initiated by, or supported by the boss.  I can tell you, that a day of short leave meant more to a member when it was directed down to them from higher through the CoC with an option for them as to date to take the leave, than did a request bottom up for higher approval.

If the OP feels he worked substantively enough out of regular routine to warrant recognition, but that his CoC is either failing to properly acknowledge, or at least support acknowledgement of such effort, then there is another issue going on here.  The issue of a memo addressed to the CO (through the CoC) must be addressed as that is not appropriate.

:2c:

Regards
G2G

 

[Ayrsayle]

I'm at a loss for the direct ref, but Old EO Tech is correct - if you make a formal request to see the CO, your request can not be denied (even though it may be a very poor decision to do so).

Consider the role of both your WO and the Adjt.  I'll speak more to the Adjt role - His function within the organization is to handle the routine (and not so routine) administrative concerns of the organization you belong to on behalf of the CO.  If every single piece of routine admin were to be addressed by the CO personally, he would never be able to have enough hours in the day to fully satisfy his duties - thus why an Adjt (and many others) handles your request.  Your request for a short day for having to work on a weekend is about as routine as they come (despite your personal feelings on the matter).  Most commanders, by default, will rely upon the CoC that exists - for a good reason. From a junior Pl Comd who relies upon his MCpls and Sgts to manage routine affairs of the Pl to a CO who relies upon his Adjt and DCO - If he starts undermining them without just cause (your personal feelings aside), he undermines his own support system required to do his job.

No reason to wade into the valid points on both sides, but think long and hard about how important this "short day" really is.  A short day, authorized by a CO, is at his discretion - it is by no means something you "deserve".  Yes, you can demand a meeting with the CO - and even if she approves it you will have likely marked yourself for additional "undesirable" taskings in the future from those in authority you've decided to snub.  Is this right? probably not - but is an additional day off really worth all the fallout that would likely occur?

Pick your battles - and consider which hill is worth dying on.

 

[SupersonicMax]

From the leave manual:

The concept of a weekend for a shift worker is not restricted to Saturdays and Sundays.  Shift workers may follow a schedule that differs from a Monday to Friday working week but it is a schedule nonetheless.  In scheduling the working days of a shift worker, the CO is responsible for specifically identifying both the working and non-working days so as to ensure that an equivalent amount of time off for weekends and statutory holidays is provided to CF members working a Monday to Friday working week.

In order to provide members with rest time associated with weekends and statutory holidays, care must be exercised to ensure the equivalent time off is given at regular intervals and not accumulated over long periods of time.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

If the unit has its shit together, it will have a schedule for duties that will also include days off to compensate and have the same amount of days off as if they were working normal workweeks, thus avoiding "dumping" duties onto others (this is actually in the CAF Leave Manual).  That is certainly how we work with our NCMs and for Officers, we leave it up to them to take compensatory days off if they need them. 

At the end of the day, as long as the work is completed in a timely manner, there is no reason to deny such a request.

HOLY LAMPLIFTING F@%K.................I had better put a claim in for the friggin' months the army owes me then for things like RV 81, 83, 85, 87, etc..............plus interest of course.

 

[Good2Golf]

...Most commanders, by default, will rely upon the CoC that exists - for a good reason. From a junior Pl Comd who relies upon his MCpls and Sgts to manage routine affairs of the Pl to a CO who relies upon his Adjt and DCO - If he starts undermining them without just cause (your personal feelings aside), he undermines his own support system required to do his job...

Don't confuse "undermine" with "override." 

A CO's overriding of subordinates' direction may in fact be appropriate, especially if the subordinates have not correctly assessed the CO's intent and are operating counter to it.  It is up to the CO to correct their subordinates' actions if their intent, direction and guidance are not being followed.


Regards
G2G

 

[George Wallace]

From the leave manual:

The concept of a weekend for a shift worker is not restricted to Saturdays and Sundays.  Shift workers may follow a schedule that differs from a Monday to Friday working week but it is a schedule nonetheless.  In scheduling the working days of a shift worker, the CO is responsible for specifically identifying both the working and non-working days so as to ensure that an equivalent amount of time off for weekends and statutory holidays is provided to CF members working a Monday to Friday working week.

In order to provide members with rest time associated with weekends and statutory holidays, care must be exercised to ensure the equivalent time off is given at regular intervals and not accumulated over long periods of time.

Are you in the Canadian ARMED Forces or not?

 

[Good2Golf]

"Equivalent" ≠ "Equal"

 

[SupersonicMax]

From Oxford dictionnary: Equivalent: Equal in value, amount, function, meaning, etc.

I am not advocating giving blindly days off, but in most cases, where there is no operationnal necessity, people should be compensated, as per the Leave Policy Manual.

Not giving a day off for no good reason other than: "You are in the Canadian Armed Forces, suck it up" is not the best way to keep morale up...

 

[George Wallace]

From Oxford dictionnary: Equivalent: Equal in value, amount, function, meaning, etc.

I am not advocating giving blindly days off, but in most cases, where there is no operationnal necessity, people should be compensated, as per the Leave Policy Manual.

Not giving a day off for no good reason other than: "You are in the Canadian Armed Forces, suck it up" is not the best way to keep morale up...

CTO is illegal. 

Leave can be rescinded. 

"Should" and "MUST"  are not the same.  Doesn't matter if there is or isn't operationally necessity.  It is a "Nicety" that members will be compensated with well earn time off.  It is NOT compulsory for Leave to be granted for working overtime, as there is NO overtime in the Canadian Armed Forces. 

 

[SupersonicMax]

It would be counted towards weekends and annotated as such on a leave pass (as per the leave policy manual). It doesn't say should in the policy manual, it says "care must be exercised".

Now, if the whole unit works on a weekend, that's a different story.  During those, COs, more often than not, will give a short day.

 

[Good2Golf]

From Oxford dictionnary: Equivalent: Equal in value, amount, function, meaning, etc.

I am not advocating giving blindly days off, but in most cases, where there is no operationnal necessity, people should be compensated, as per the Leave Policy Manual.

Not giving a day off for no good reason other than: "You are in the Canadian Armed Forces, suck it up" is not the best way to keep morale up...

When you're a CO, let me know how the 'Oxford Approach' works for you.  If you don't get what I was saying, then you are either being obstinate or truly don't have a clue.

Keep in mind that giving time off to each individual who thinks they're entitled to it because they did something more than a straight 37.5-hour work week can be as equally demoralizing to the others less bound to punching a clock, and more attuned to working as a whole to help their unit achieve what it has been tasked.


Regards
G2G