• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Alarming number of Mounties facing disciplinary action- June 2014 report

CougarKing

Army.ca Fixture
Inactive
Reaction score
0
Points
360
Watching porn on duty...  :facepalm:

CBC news

RCMP disciplining more members for offences
CBC – 19 hours ago

A growing number of RCMP members are facing formal discipline for offences ranging from having sex in a cruiser to using excessive force, according to the latest report from the RCMP's professional integrity officer.

The report notes the number of Mounties facing formal discipline has reached a 13-year high, a surge it attributes to a crackdown on bad behaviour by Commissioner Bob Paulson.

Other offences outlined in the report include viewing porn on duty, lying to a boss or cheating on a test to land a promotion. Some also faced criminal charges for more serious offences including assault and impaired driving.

The report notes that even though some cases were withdrawn and others resolved by the member’s resignation, a year-end balance of 144 cases marked a "notable increase" in the average caseload of 96. On top of the 128 cases carried over from the previous year, 104 new cases entered the system — creating a "significantly heavier workload," according to the report.

(...EDITED)
 
Can't ever satisfy the media (CBC in particular).  First it was the RCMP are undisciplined, so they start cracking down...surprise surprise, number of people getting disciplined goes up.

And out of a Sworn membership of 18690 http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/about-ausujet/organi-eng.htm, 144 facing discipline hearings = less than 1% (0.0077% actually) of that membership breaking the rules/law.  I can live with that, since it's hardly an "alarming" number. 
 
Hatchet Man said:
Can't ever satisfy the media (CBC in particular).  First it was the RCMP are undisciplined, so they start cracking down...surprise surprise, number of people getting disciplined goes up.

And out of a Sworn membership of 18690 http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/about-ausujet/organi-eng.htm, 144 facing discipline hearings = less than 1% (0.0077% actually) of the of that membership breaking the rules/law.  I can live with that.


Yup, never fails. They take a story like this  :alone: and turn it into this  :panic:

They stopped reporting the news years ago and now concentrate on creating the news via a over the air tabloid station. TMZ on public steroids.
 
S.M.A. said:
Watching porn on duty...  :facepalm:

CBC news

I dont really get too worked up over any ulterior motives for this article but I couldnt help but observe that for attempting to make a fraudulent claim they only get docked somepay when it sounds more like criminal code charges should be warranted.  Tryto do the same thing in the CF, or as a civvie and you can bet it would be more then a slap on the wrist.
 
Schindler's Lift said:
I dont really get too worked up over any ulterior motives for this article but I couldnt help but observe that for attempting to make a fraudulent claim they only get docked somepay when it sounds more like criminal code charges should be warranted.  Tryto do the same thing in the CF, or as a civvie and you can bet it would be more then a slap on the wrist.

From the article "Some also faced criminal charges for more serious offences including assault and impaired driving."

"One corporal with 22 years on the job was reprimanded and docked 10 days' pay for impaired driving in an unmarked cruiser and attempting to use his RCMP status to avoid criminal charges. He's on duty but facing criminal charges."

The actual report. http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/adj/ann-12-13/index-eng.htm

Keep in mind the standard of proof and evidence required to sustain actual criminal charges that will hold up in court (and have a Crown willing to prosecute) will be SIGNIFCANTLY hiring than that which is required for an internal discipline board, but you knew that when you made your comment right?
 
Hatchet Man said:
Can't ever satisfy the media (CBC in particular).  First it was the RCMP are undisciplined, so they start cracking down...surprise surprise, number of people getting disciplined goes up.

And out of a Sworn membership of 18690 http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/about-ausujet/organi-eng.htm, 144 facing discipline hearings = less than 1% (0.0077% actually) of that membership breaking the rules/law.  I can live with that, since it's hardly an "alarming" number.
Actually, 144 out of 18690 is 0.77%. So, rounding up to 0.8% would be slightly less than 1% incidence.
 
Hatchet Man said:
From the article "Some also faced criminal charges for more serious offences including assault and impaired driving."

"One corporal with 22 years on the job was reprimanded and docked 10 days' pay for impaired driving in an unmarked cruiser and attempting to use his RCMP status to avoid criminal charges. He's on duty but facing criminal charges."

The actual report. http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/adj/ann-12-13/index-eng.htm

Keep in mind the standard of proof and evidence required to sustain actual criminal charges that will hold up in court (and have a Crown willing to prosecute) will be SIGNIFCANTLY hiring than that which is required for an internal discipline board, but you knew that when you made your comment right?

That's an internal Code of Conduct sanction, which will be in addition to any criminal sanction. So in the impaired example, that's an internal fine of about $2400, which will be on top of the fine (usually $1150 for a first offense) and driving prohibition he'll face if convicted criminally. There are also the implications for his career, which are not inconsiderable. You pull a stunt like this in the force, your name is mud.

At least this news article does acknowledge that Paulson had said there will be a clampdown, and that this doesn't necessarily indicate a higher incidence of misconduct.
 
Brihard said:
That's an internal Code of Conduct sanction, which will be in addition to any criminal sanction. So in the impaired example, that's an internal fine of about $2400, which will be on top of the fine (usually $1150 for a first offense) and driving prohibition he'll face if convicted criminally. There are also the implications for his career, which are not inconsiderable. You pull a stunt like this in the force, your name is mud.

At least this news article does acknowledge that Paulson had said there will be a clampdown, and that this doesn't necessarily indicate a higher incidence of misconduct.

Oh I get that, I was just highlighting for Schindler (and others) that some of those people were in fact charged criminally, and that for those RM's who weren't, one possible reason is the higher burden of proof required to sustain the charge.  Also, just because they weren't charged criminally doesn't mean, criminal charges weren't considered (during the investigation).  The report just doesn't have that information.

ArmyDoc said:
Actually, 144 out of 18690 is 0.77%. So, rounding up to 0.8% would be slightly less than 1% incidence.

Your right, forgot to multply by 100, either way, it's still not an "alarming number" by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Sory HAtchet- I quoted your post, but my comment was more in agreement than anything and should have been read as addressing the last guy.
 
Digging into the actual report, one of the members who committed fraud, was ordered to resign (or be terminated), and was facing criminal charges as well.  Not exactly a slap on the wrist, and belies the notion that criminal charges for misconduct aren't put forward.

And to comment on the notion that the CAF or civilian world would seek charges (particularly in regards to fraud).

1) Someone has to actually recognize that what has transpired is indeed fraud AND that fraud IS criminal.
2) That someone has to actually care enough to report it to the appropriate authorities.

 
Hatchet Man said:
Keep in mind the standard of proof and evidence required to sustain actual criminal charges that will hold up in court (and have a Crown willing to prosecute) will be SIGNIFCANTLY hiring than that which is required for an internal discipline board, but you knew that when you made your comment right?

I've dealt with those facts for over 25 years so yes, I'm familier with it.  I'm also familier that many (most?) of these investigations into these incidents were conducted by the members own department.  Perhaps not their own detachment.  And even if an outside agency was involved the wagons were most likely still circled before the outsiders arrived.
 
When the RCMP go through their training is their just a lip service paid to members being on good behavior or is it a big part of their training?

Anytime I'm working with the public I literally hammer it into soldiers that everything they do can and will be videotaped on cell phones and those videos will be uploaded on youtube before lunch.  It's hard for me to understand when police get caught on camera doing stupid shit because they among everyone should know better.

I'm not suggesting they should try to hide their behavior better but if they're getting caught on camera doing this what aren't they getting caught doing.

Either way it's good that the RCMP CoC is cracking down on these shitbirds. The RCMP is getting/ has a pretty bad reputation and cleaning house is a good way to improve that.
 
ObedientiaZelum said:
When the RCMP go through their training is their just a lip service paid to members being on good behavior or is it a big part of their training?

Anytime I'm working with the public I literally hammer it into soldiers that everything they do can and will be videotaped on cell phones and those videos will be uploaded on youtube before lunch.  It's hard for me to understand when police get caught on camera doing stupid shit because they among everyone should know better.

I'm not suggesting they should try to hide their behavior better but if they're getting caught on camera doing this what aren't they getting caught doing.

Either way it's good that the RCMP CoC is cracking down on these shitbirds. The RCMP is getting/ has a pretty bad reputation and cleaning house is a good way to improve that.

Although what you say is true, one must remember that much of the video that is posted on YouTube is EDITED and may not show the complete and actual event that took place.  It is quite easy to editorialize, by selective editing of video, and present a completely different view of what actually occurred.  You have to be very careful what conclusions you come to when viewing social media.

I might add that some Police agencies are now requiring or implementing SOPs where the officers wear cameras to record events as well.
 
ArmyDoc said:
Actually, 144 out of 18690 is 0.77%. So, rounding up to 0.8% would be slightly less than 1% incidence.

In the eyes of the CBC, anything other than 0% is totally unacceptable for any Canadian public institution.

The RCMP should and must be held accountable to the same high standard as the CBC.
 
Haggis said:
In the eyes of the CBC, anything other than 0% is totally unacceptable for any Canadian public institution.

The RCMP should and must be held accountable to the same high standard as the CBC.

Pretty low bar you're setting there...barely 1/2 mile below sea level.

MM
 
Schindler's Lift said:
I've dealt with those facts for over 25 years so yes, I'm familier with it.  I'm also familier that many (most?) of these investigations into these incidents were conducted by the members own department.  Perhaps not their own detachment.  And even if an outside agency was involved the wagons were most likely still circled before the outsiders arrived.

That statement there just shows that you are not willing to consider that an internal investigation might actually be honest. I am not trying to dispute that cover ups do not go on, they definitely do, what I am trying to say is that we have to give people the benefit of the doubt sometimes and taking your mindset is more counterproductive than anything.
 
medicineman said:
Pretty low bar you're setting there...barely 1/2 mile below sea level.

MM

All I'm saying is that the CBC should be held to the same standard of conduct as the Canadian institutions it reports on.
 
Haggis said:
All I'm saying is that the CBC should be held to the same standard of conduct as the Canadian institutions it reports on.

I agree totally - however it seems that the level of accountability of the CBC seems to be that of whale shyte at the bottom of the ocean.

MM
 
ObedientiaZelum said:
When the RCMP go through their training is their just a lip service paid to members being on good behavior or is it a big part of their training?

Oh man. That would be a conversation better had over a beer or two, but suffice to say that in training RCMP cadets spend six months walking on eggshells terrified of any slip up that might even be perceived to be indicative of any deficit in the force's core values. You screw up there, you're out and you don't get hired. If you knew about it and didn't say anything, you're out too. Cadets are under a distracting degree of paranoia to make sure they don't break any rules even accidentally.
 
We had a lad working here who was sent back with 2 weeks to go............fortunately he took a leave of absence to go instead of quitting.
 
Back
Top