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Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread

- Remember back in the seventies, when Rhodesia was fighting what was initialy called a "Communist Insurgency"? But outside Rhodesia, the Western media turned it from a Democracy vs Communist-backed action into a Black vs White action (notwithstanding the fact that most of the Rhodesian soldiers were black).

- So now, after the despots have won and rich Rhodesia has become starving and diseased Zimbabwe, does anyone not see the irony in this?  Too bad the vast majority of the people in Zimbabwe have to suffer.  They have no shortage of home-grown talent: Zimbabwe will again be a well run country.  But, the thugs have to be run out first.
 
Although this report, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from Global Pundit, is a bit (a week+) dated it should serve as a good launch pad for a discussion about a (possible?) (potential?) (likely?) (inevitable?) Canadian military mission in Africa:
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http://globalpundit.org/2008/12/07/report-munk-debate-on-humanitarian-intervention/

Report: Munk Debate on Humanitarian Intervention

Toronto, Canada - Christiane Amanpour’s CNN special tonight “Scream Bloody Murder” on genocide was quite timely after this week’s Munk Debate on Humanitarian Intervention.  Both events hinged on the question of whether the international community has an obligation to intervene in situations of genocide and other man-made crises when a country is unable to protect itself.  The most immediate example that comes to mind is that of Rwanda in the early 1990s.  For one hundred days in 1994, a bloody genocide perpetrated by Hutu extremists resulted in the deaths of 800,000 Tutsis and Hutu moderates in Rwanda.  Canadian General Romeo Dallaire, head of the United Nations Assistance Mission to Rwanda, provided the United Nations with ample evidence that this massacre was coming, yet the UN refused to send him the troops and resources he requested.  Weeks before the killing began Dallaire had been tipped off by aHutu informant that weapons caches were hidden all around the capital city of Kigali and that the names of Tutsis were being compiled into lists in preparation for the slaughter.  All this information was presented to theUnited Nations numerous times, but to no avail.  Today we can look back and ask ourselves, if Dallaire had been given the 4500 troops he asked for, would the situation have been different?  How many lives would have been saved?  Is it safe to say that the international community, specifically the United Nations, failed General Dalliare, and most importantly, the people of Rwanda?  Asked tonight by Amanpour if he thinks he did enough to stop the genocide, he regretfully says no, he could have done more.

In 1948, The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide  was passed by the United Nations, requiring nations to act to stop genocide.    The word genocide, which literally means race/group killing, was coined by Raphael Lemkin in 1944, a man who had lost 40 members of his family in the most horrific genocide the world has ever seen, the Holocaust. Lemkin was instrumental in creating  The Convention on Genocide and hoped it would stop future massacres. Yet since the law officially came into effect in January 1951, we have witnessed the killing of millions of people around the world as a result of genocide.  The examples used in the CNN special tonight were as follows:

• Over two million people were killed in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge during the 1970s. The Khmer Rouge, led by dictator Pol Pot, were a communist rebel group who overthrew the US-backed Cambodian government in 1975 and proceeded to transition the country into a tradition, agrarian-based society.  People were forced from the city into the countryside, put into work camps, starved, tortured and executed.

• Tens of thousands of Kurdish people during the al-Anfal campaign in Iraq under Saddam Hussein between 1986 and 1989. Supported financially by The United States during the Iran/Iraq war, Saddam used chemical warfare against the Kurds, dropping mustard gas and deadly nerve agents on their villages.  According to Human Rights Watch, 90% of Kurdish villages were wiped out in target areas.

• Nearly 100,000 died in Bosnia between 1992 and 1995, mostly Muslimskilled by Christian Serbs. After Bosnia-Herzegovina declared sovereignty from Yugoslavia in 1991 and was formally declared an independent country in 1992, Christian Serbs embarked  on  an ethnic cleansing mission against the country’s Muslim population involving massrape, torture,  starvation, and execution.  In Srebrenica, 8000 boys and men were executed by Serb forces in July of 1995 after Serb forces overtook the UN occupied “safe area” and gained control of the thousands of Bosnian Muslims who had sought refuge there.

• 800,000 Tutsis and Hutu moderates were killed in Rwanda by Hutu extremists in 1994 . During Belgian colonial rule of Rwanda in the early twentieth century, the tall, lighter-skinned Tutsis were favoured over the shorter, darker-skinned Hutus because they were seen as being more European-like.  Since Rwanda achieved independence in 1962  the Hutus have sought to take revenge on the Tutsis through political corruption, displacement  and murder.  It was this conflict that ultimately played out during the 1994 massacre.

• Thousands of African tribes are being killed today by the Arab government in Darfur. Government-backed Arab militiamen, known as the Janjaweed, are killing non-Arab African tribes in an effort to make Darfur free of black people.  The Janjaweed have raped women, burned down villages, and murdered thousands in an effort to drive these people from the land.  After apeacekeeping force of 26,000 was finally put into the region in 2007, afterSudan finally gave its permission, by July 2008, the force had dwindled to half its size and the region erupted into anarchy.  While the international response from the United Nations and other countries has been dismal, some say the grassroots movement that has grown up around the genocide in Darfur is keeping this issue on the agenda and forcing people to pay attention.  Save Darfur , 24 hours for Darfur and Eyes on Darfur are three such organizations and all are easily accessible online.

In all these situations there has been delayed, insufficient, or virtually no international response.  This has had dire consequences for the people of these countries and as a result millions have died.  So: What should happen in these situations?  Do countries like Canada and the United States have anobligation to step in and stop these atrocities from happening?  If so, will this involve diplomacy and sanctions or will it involve military force and violence?  During the recent Munk Debate in Toronto, participants debated the following resolution “Be it resolved that if countries like Sudan,Zimbabwe, and Myanmar (formerly Burma) will not end their man-made humanitarian crises, the international community should.”  Actor and activist Mia Farrow and Gareth Evans, President of International Crisis Group were in support of humanitarian intervention and advocated for a multi-dimensional approach including both non-violent and military means. Evans said that we should be cautious of coercive military force and should use it only  in the most extreme circumstances like Rwanda and Bosnia, when it is too late for diplomacy.  Farrow noted that the core of a truly effective approach is to go in and deescalate situations by non-violent means so that they don’t get to the point where military intervention is needed.  Both argued military solutions should not be the only solutions.  General Rick Hillier, retired soldier and former Canadian Chief of Defence staff said that if diplomacy worked, we wouldn’t be having a debate on humanitarian intervention because it would never get to the controversial military stage. He went on to say that intervention can be successful when  those who seek to intervene have the support of the government in power, but when dealing with a corrupt government for example in Darfur today, intervention may be less successful.  When asked if leaders today feel any pressure to stop committing atrocities, John Bolton, former US Ambassador to the UN cited the example of the recent bombings in Pakistan and the spike in terrorist attacks globally post 9/11 as examples that leaders, official or otherwise, actually aren’t that scared.  Evans countered that the International Criminal Process is deterring some leaders, and that a recent study out of the University of British Columbia reported an 80% decrease in the number of serious conflicts in the world in the past 18 years. Hillier and Bolton remained unconvinced.

A prominent theme brought up in both these discussions about crisis and intervention is the question of morality.  What is the right thing to do in these situations?  One could argue that the relative ignorance of the international community on these atrocities may have had something to do with their desire to not have to think about the horrors happening halfway across the world.  Elie Wiesel, Holoucaust survivor, Nobel Peace Prizewinner and author, when asked by Christiane Amanpour why people don’t pay closer attention to genocide noted that it would interfere with their ability to sleep at night, or enjoy a glass of red wine.  Who among us, living in relative peace in Canada would be able to go on day to day knowing of all the horrors that really go on in the world?  Many of us know little of the resilience and strength summoned by those who actually have to live these atrocities and we are grateful that we don’t have to.

Mia Farrow has been to Darfur ten times and she came to the debate to speak for those people whom do not command the attention of the spotlight as she does.  Farrow was adamant that we must respond to international crises because every life is a life worth saving and we are all part of a larger global community.  If we don’t have a leader in power who can stomach the sacrifices necessary to do this, than they should step aside for someone who does.  Gareth Evan urged the audience to understand that there is always a national interest in international humanitarian crises because failed states and corrupt regimes have been known to quickly deteriorate into global threats and terrorist harbours.  Even situations that at first do not seem of direct concern to us can become dangerous further down the road, but more than national interest, we all have a common obligation to humanity to keep each other safe.  Rick Hillier, conversely was not as interested in morality and actually took a swipe at Farrow saying that if you come at intervention from the heart, you are going to fail.  He said that intervention should never be justified on the basis of values alone.  According to Hillier interventions should only be carried out if long-term, sustainable success can be guaranteed and all necessary resources are available. Generals are very pragmatic, Hillier said, and they want to do missions that have the support of Canadians, but won’t commit without the proper capacities and capability.  Hillier suggested Canada double to size of their army if they want to get serious about being more involved.  John Bolton was the most conservative of the participants and argued that morality does not only run in one direction, namely in the direction that promotes intervention.  If the President of the United States doesn’t want to send his soldiers out to die in a foreign land, then that should be considered a moral decision too.  Bolton was adamant that we should not be casual with other people’s blood and challenged those in the audience who favour intervention to send out their own sons and daughters, but not his.

Before the debate 72% of the audience was in favour of humanitarian intervention and in the post-debate poll, 68% agreed that humanitarian intervention is necessary.

In our increasingly global and integrated world, it seems neither practical, nor possible to only be concerned with what is going on outside our front door.  Here in North America, we’ve gladly welcomed the connections forged by technology, the economy and the media that have made it possible for us to become global citizens.  There has probably never been a time in all of history that we’ve been able to take so much from other parts of the world into our own homes.  Yet, where does that end?  If we gladly welcome oil from Iraq or coltan from the Congo, is it fair or right for us to choose not to take on the conflicts, deaths and horrors going on in those exact same regions?

~report by GP correspondent Jenna

To contact Jenna, comment, or reach www.GlobalPundit.Org eMagazine, email editor@GlobalPundit.Org

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As a point of clarification: At the start the audience at the Munk Debate was offered this resolution:


“Be it resolved that if countries like Sudan,Zimbabwe, and Myanmar (formerly Burma) will not end their man-made humanitarian crises, the international community should.”

Before the debate the audience (750 people interested in foreign policy) voted as follows:

Pro: 79% (agree with Evans/Farrow)
Con: 21% (agree with Bolton/Hillier)

After the debate the results were:

Pro:  68% -11
Con: 32% +11

A 22 point shift means that Hillier and Bolton persuaded a considerable people that Evans and Farrow, idealistic though they may be, are offering poor policy advice. That's my view, too.

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There should be no question that human rights, the natural rights of every single person, and civil rights and, indeed, civilization itself have taken a beating over the past 60 years. There is also no doubt that the US led West has actively, even aggressively supported a few of the most abusive ‘leaders’ in the world, but, in the main, the majority of the blame can, must be laid at the feet of:

Secondarily - The now defunct USSR which exported abuse as a mainstay of its political/socio-economic solution to the 3rd World’s many problem; and

Primarily – the thugs and thieves who have governed most of the third world for the past 55 years.

Fifty five years of inept, corrupt self government have driven the Bottom Billion – which includes almost all of Africa’s 900 million people and another 100 million scattered thither and yon, including in West/Central/South Asia and the Caribbean – to the very brink of the point at which people lose all hope and most vestiges of civilization. Afghanistan was, certainly, and maybe still is part of that Bottom Billion. The whole Bottom Billion is already a festering sore on the world’s conscience and it will, soon, break through and become a significant, frightening threat to our peace and security.

My view, informed in part by discussions with Bob Fowler, is that Africa beckons – and when we (some of you, actually) get there we (civilians, especially in the commentariat and the ‘chattering classes’) will look fondly back at Afghanistan as a nice, clean, tidy, clear cut, morally unambiguous mission.

My questions are:

Is Africa, indeed, the next big deal, or am I missing something?

If Canada (the military, anyway) is bound for Africa then: are we ready – policies, military doctrine, training, equipment and so on?


 
E.R. Campbell said:
My questions are:

Is Africa, indeed, the next big deal, or am I missing something?

Yes, it likely is.

If Canada (the military, anyway) is bound for Africa then: are we ready – policies, military doctrine, training, equipment and so on?

No, we're not, and won't begin to make efforts to be ready until we've been deployed for half a decade at least.  How many CF members have we sent on Pastun language training so far?  But plenty go on the ATL to learn French, German or Spanish - career enhancing, or at least gets you jammy postings to Europe, since those are more important that being prepared for the current battle.

 
68% of those polled think there should be intervention, but how many are willing to put themselves in harms way to deal with the problem. And then how much of those people will change their opinions once Canada's soldiers start losing more men and women. The Canadian public is too 'comfortable'(can't think of another word) and only supports missions where little is lost and lots is gained. Africa, particularly Darfur, would be a slaughterhouse waiting to happen and it'll be the 'minute' population of men and women that we work with everyday that will have to deal with the brunt of this conflict. Don't get me wrong, I joined to fight for opressed people and those that cannot defend themselves, but I am simply saying that the Canadian public is blind to what the outcome of such a conflict might be.
 
Much of the blame can also be laid at the feet of people who wish not to be involved for ideological reasons, until genocide is in progress.  Timely intervention requires acceptance of the labels "paternalist" and "colonialist".  The self-learned path to the institutions we take for granted was centuries long and marked with blood shed at every step.  The model exists for those who can tear themselves away from tribal vendetta to consider it, but few can.

Intervention in Africa is overdue, but not as handmaidens to tyrants.

[Add: one advantage: English and French are spoken in much of Africa.]
 
Brad Sallows said:
[Add: one advantage: English and French are spoken in much of Africa.]

Yes, maybe we can get all those Rhodes Scholars to return to the continent that provided them with their education...
 
Well if I can't get to the Sandbox, I'll go to Africa. I'm ready for another adventure. Who's with me?? :cdn:
 
- Here is a question nobody is asking: Should we spend our defence budget DOING things, or flitter it away MOVING things?

- Because that is exactly what most of the money will be spent on: moving several billion dollars worth of kit (some of it in over 1,000 seacans) from the place we are to the next place we are told to go.  Figure out how many planes we have at our disposal then how long it will take to buy the stuff to replace the stuff we figure is just too expensive to move - sneaky way to disarm the country, isn't it.

- What happens to the local knowledge we have gained over the last six years?  All for naught?  Dump it and start all over on a new continent?  That experience has been paid for in blood.

- Wait! There is OIL in Africa! NO WAR FOR OIL!  8)

- (A noted Canadian Historian) has it right - in Canada, R2P is R2P(A): Africa.

- Does Africa need saving? No.  It needs money to save itself.  There is MORE than enough home grown talent in Africa to make things right.  Give them time.  Let the OAS tell us what they need.  Know what?  It won't be white soldiers...

- What happens after we start filling body bags there?  Because you know that the bad guys in Africa read our newspapers.  They know that the fastest way to get us to leave is to kill a few of us - works every time, right?
 
The same people who are saying lets go to Africa to help out are the same ones who after five years and little shown progress will be crying the Sacrifice is to much get our troops home.

I think after 2011 we should keep a good Peackeeping force in Afganistan to moniter and keep training the Local Miltary and Police force. Have heavy Armour/ Artillery positioned for 24 hr reaction to respond.

Then take a six month break from major operations. Get our Gear and personalle sorted out then head off to Africa and commit a sizable force there. That has the mandate to fight and get to the root cause of the situation. Deploy full support including Armoured, Artillery, And Airsupport (F18s). Make the public aware that this is not a peacekeeping mission but a peace making missison. The cost of being involved will be much higher then it was or is in Afganistan from a Military point of view. (loss of lives and equipment). Commit to this untill it is sorted out.

 
CTD said:
Deploy full support including Armoured, Artillery, And Airsupport (F18s). Make the public aware that this is not a peacekeeping mission but a peace making missison. The cost of being involved will be much higher then it was or is in Afganistan from a Military point of view. (loss of lives and equipment). Commit to this untill it is sorted out.

(emphasis added)

Africa will be a basket case for several more generations, regardless of our efforts.  So unless "we're all Rhodesians now" this isn't going to fly.
 
I've watched Zimbabwe with interest for many years - I had cousins who lived there from the times of UDI and Ian Smith who finally left starting around 2000.  They were at one time the breadbasket of Africa, a prosperous nation.  Mugabe built an amazing education system, so I'm told, the problem being that it educated a lot of people who simply left to find their fortunes elsewhere.  When he finally does go and the people start to try to pick up the pieces, they're going to have to try to get these educated folks to come back to fill the vacuum that is sure to be left.  It's not going to be a pretty job, though.  The land is destroyed, the economy is almost completely collapsed, and so many have fled perhaps never to return.

TCBF said:
- Remember back in the seventies, when Rhodesia was fighting what was initialy called a "Communist Insurgency"? But outside Rhodesia, the Western media turned it from a Democracy vs Communist-backed action into a Black vs White action (notwithstanding the fact that most of the Rhodesian soldiers were black).

- So now, after the despots have won and rich Rhodesia has become starving and diseased Zimbabwe, does anyone not see the irony in this?  Too bad the vast majority of the people in Zimbabwe have to suffer.  They have no shortage of home-grown talent: Zimbabwe will again be a well run country.  But, the thugs have to be run out first.
 
dapaterson said:
(emphasis added)

Africa will be a basket case for several more generations, regardless of our efforts.  So unless "we're all Rhodesians now" this isn't going to fly.

- Exactly.

- The problem is not resources, it is political and national will.  We could do both Afghanistan AND Africa - but not with a Regular Force of 53,000.

- All of those interventionists who think we should be in Africa NOW, should frog-march (notice I am trying to use that verb in a constructive way now) themselves into the nearest CFRC and LEAD the way.
 
Seems odd the heirs to Progressia don't form their own new "International Brigades" and do the job. Their forebearers in the 1930's really knew how to put their money where their mouths were, while today they *might* be persuaded to cheer from the sidelines for a short while.
 
Redeye said:
I've watched Zimbabwe with interest for many years - I had cousins who lived there from the times of UDI and Ian Smith who finally left starting around 2000.  They were at one time the breadbasket of Africa, a prosperous nation.  Mugabe built an amazing education system, so I'm told, the problem being that it educated a lot of people who simply left to find their fortunes elsewhere.  When he finally does go and the people start to try to pick up the pieces, they're going to have to try to get these educated folks to come back to fill the vacuum that is sure to be left.  It's not going to be a pretty job, though.  The land is destroyed, the economy is almost completely collapsed, and so many have fled perhaps never to return.

- In many cases, the loss of talent in stressed countries has been a gain for the West, but it makes no sense to be flying doctors, engineers, entrepreneurs and administrators from Africa to Toronto so that they can become taxi drivers.  An incredible waste of human resources.  Sure, they may want to go home someday, but you can bet their children will want to stay in Canada.

 
Thucydides said:
Seems odd the heirs to Progressia don't form their own new "International Brigades" and do the job. Their forebearers in the 1930's really knew how to put their money where their mouths were, while today they *might* be persuaded to cheer from the sidelines for a short while.

- The Decline of the Upper Classes: they once LED us to war, now they SEND us to war...
 
UN says Zimbabwe cholera death toll reaches 1,111
The Associated Press

GENEVA -- The cholera death toll in Zimbabwe has risen above 1,100, the United Nations said Thursday, as one expert warned that the country is ill-prepared to deal with outbreaks of other diseases.

A total of 1,111 cholera deaths were recorded by Wednesday, an increase of 133 in two days, the UN humanitarian office in Geneva said.

The latest figures, which are compiled by the World Health Organization, show that the number of cases has risen to 20,581 since the start of the cholera outbreak in August.

On Monday, health officials had tallied 18,413 cases and 978 deaths.

Aid workers have struggled to keep up with the spread of the disease, partly because reports of new cases have been slow to come in from rural Zimbabwe.

One WHO cholera expert, Dominique Legros, said a new command and control centre that opened this week will speed up reporting of outbreaks, but the lack of basic communications equipment in outlying areas remains a problem.

Legros warned that Zimbabwe's fragile health system means the country is ill-prepared at the moment to deal with other health emergencies.

WHO says cholera is spreading in Zimbabwe because of badly maintained sanitation systems, rampant inflation that has hit doctors and nurses, and a lack of clean drinking water.

Unlike many other African countries, Zimbabwe has modern laboratories and well-trained health workers, said Legros.

But according to WHO, many cannot survive on the meagre pay they receive, with some unable even to afford the cost of travelling to work.

Mugabe says no African country will topple him
The Associated Press
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081219/mugabe_threats_081219/20081219?hub=World

HARARE, Zimbabwe -- Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe says no African nation has the guts to topple him.

The state-controlled Herald newspaper quotes Mugabe as telling leaders of his party that neighboring Botswana's calls for his ouster are nothing but hot air.

Meanwhile, opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai said Friday he will ask his party to halt talks on a unity government with Mugabe unless political detainees are released or charged by Jan. 1.

Mugabe and Tsvangirai agreed three months ago to form a unity government but negotiations have stalled over how to share Cabinet posts.

The political impasse comes amid a mounting economic and humanitarian crisis that has pushed thousands of Zimbabweans to the point of starvation and left 1,123 dead from cholera since August.
 
HARARE, Zimbabwe -- Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe says no African nation has the guts to topple him.

And you know what ???  He,s right.
Unfortunately, without the support of some African nations, any UN/NATO/ABCA intervention would be impossible.
 
When I was in Mozambique (93), Zimbabwe was our preferred destination for 48 hrs leave. As soon as we crossed the border from the poverty, desolation and general decrepitude of Mozambique into the clean, functional and friendly atmosphere of Mutare (the border town), it was literally like stepping onto another planet. You could get a well prepared meal in a clean restaurant, have a few beers in a friendly pub, and actually buy meat in a butcher store that was health inspected. But even then, as we found out from friends we made in Mutare, Mugabe's regime of nepotism, corruption and setting people against each other was already under way. The majority of key positions in the govt and security forces were held by family or members of his tribe. The economic backbone of the country, and what made it the breadbasket that Desmond Tutu referred to, were the large farming operations run by white Zimbabweans. Our friends ran a large operation that included a lumber mill, a small bauxite mine and the production of tulips for shipment to Europe. They had about 300 employees, and three villages on the farm.  Mugabe was just beginning his programme of winning favour with poor rural Zimbabweans by taking over these successful operations and breaking them up into individual patches where a family would be able to grow a few vegetables. This might have sounded good, but in fact it contributed to the destruction of the economy, as we can see today. On top of this, AIDS was already getting a pretty strong hold on the population: I'm sure current conditions have only made that worse.

Mugabe is a disgrace to the idea of African self rule, who should have been deposed long ago. It's shameful (but to be expected...) that other Southern African leaders have taken so long to do anything. Hopefully it's not too late to restore Zimbabwe to what it was.

Cheers

DJB
 
Hopefully it's not too late to restore Zimbabwe to what it was

Unfortunately.... who is going to do that ???

From what I understand, they have found gemstones in the rivers and streams.  Mugabe,s cronies are "mining" the rivers to complete the rape of the country.  The thugs won't leave until they are thrown out - but, who's the one who is going to do that ?

The only country with the potential muscle to do the throwing would be South Africa.... and their leader has proven himself to be indecisive on that subject.
 
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