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Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread

rz350

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thats according to wiki, it seemed a bit dodgy to me as well. But ya never know. (and it says they only have 2 of the Ka-50...its possible)
 
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Looks like it has begun...

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/12/24/somalia.html

Ethiopia declares war against Somali militants
Sends troops to bombard towns across the border
Last Updated: Sunday, December 24, 2006 | 3:43 PM ET
The Associated Press
Ethiopia has moved openly for the first time against Islamic militants in neighbouring Somalia, striking in border towns Sunday amid fears that the violence could engulf the Horn of Africa.

Until now, Ethiopia has supported Somalia's weak interim government against the militants, but has denied that its troops have crossed the border to fight — even though witnesses have been describing such attacks for weeks.
 
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rz350 said:
If I recall, they have Su-27's piloted by Russian or Ukraine pilots that they hire. (Ex RUS or UKR AF pers...but that might of changed, that was from the 1998 war with Ereteria, and they have trained their own pilots for that plane by now)
Also, they fly Mig-17, 21 and 23. Some F-5 as well and they have two Su-25 Frogfoot CAS planes. I would imagine the MiG-17 is limited to a CAS/bombing role against light infantry only, since its very very old and rather dated for anything but strafing infantry.

They have some Ka-50 and Mi-24 attack whirrly's too.

You can read a good account of the last Ethiopian/Eritrean air conflict in the late 90's/early 2000's here:

http://www.dehai.org/archives/dehai_news_archive/apr-may03/0303.html

EAF pictures here:

http://www.mediaethiopia.com/photoessay/photo_essay_EAF.htm
 

rz350

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Good link...I was just trying to give a brief statement of their equipment
 
C

CrazyCanuck

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It will be interesting to see how the west reacts to this, I'm wondering how close it will mirror the Isreal-Hezbolla conflict in regards to Western opinion
 

FredDaHead

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Boater said:
It will be interesting to see how the west reacts to this, I'm wondering how close it will mirror the Isreal-Hezbolla conflict in regards to Western opinion

You know the result as well as I do: the legitimate authorities will come out looking like bad guys (worse than the Empire) and the terrorists will look like victims of the evil conspiracy against... uh... terror.
 

tomahawk6

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The Islamic Courts have retreated from Mogadishu to their last stronghold of Kismayo. Many of their fighters have taken off their uniforms and blended into the population,an insurgency is probably planned its effectiveness may be problematic. The IC did not make themselves very popular during their brief time in power.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061227/ethopia_somali_061228/20061228?hub=TopStories
 

MarkOttawa

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War now:

Somalia War: Mogadishu falls to Christians
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/008508.html

Mark
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NL_engineer

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Article link http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061227/ethopia_somali_061228/20061228?hub=CTVNewsAt11

CTV.ca News Staff

Somalia's government plans to declare martial law for three months, after Ethiopian-backed troops took over the capital Mogadishu from their Islamist rivals.

"This country has experienced anarchy and in order to restore security we need a strong hand, especially with freelance militias," Somali Prime Minister Ali Mohamad Gedi told reporters Thursday.

He added that martial law could begin as early as Saturday.

Militiamen for the Somalia Islamic Courts Council (SICC) had controlled Mogadishu since June, attempting to establish a government based on a strict interpretation of Islam that echoed the Taliban.

Before Somali troops entered the capital, hundreds of militiamen who had backed the Islamist faction showed they had switched allegiance by taking off their uniforms.

"We have been defeated. I have removed my uniform. Most of my comrades have also changed into civilian clothes," one former SICC fighter told Reuters. "Most of our leaders have fled.

Meanwhile, at least 17 refugees fleeing the conflict zone drowned when their boat capsized in the Gulf of Aden, the United Nations refugee agency said Thursday.

The confrontation occurred Wednesday when Yemeni authorities discovered four boats, carrying about 515 people, and opened fire. The agency said 140 people were still missing.

Earlier, Ethiopian Prime Minister Meles Zenawi said officials had been discussing how to keep Mogadishu from descending into chaos.

"We will not let Mogadishu burn," Meles told reporters in Addis Ababa.

Ethiopian and Somali government troops advanced on the capital from the north and the west, capturing the country's most important airfield and driving Islamic fighters out of Jowhar, the last major town on the road leading to Mogadishu.

Somali officer Col. Ahmed Omar said that Ethiopian troops would stop advancing on Mogadishu but that government forces would approach the capital.

Islamists said they had left Mogadishu but vowed they would not give up without a fight.

Residents south of the city told The Associated Press that Islamist forces were headed south toward the port city of Kismayo, their last remaining stronghold.

One former Islamic fighter who quit Thursday, Yusuf Ibrahim, said about 3,000 fighters had left for Kismayo, some 500 kilometres to the south.

Abdirahman Janaqow, a senior leader, told AP he ordered his forces out of the capital to avoid bloodshed.

"We decided to leave Mogadishu because of the safety of the civilians," Janaqow said. "We want to face our enemy and their stooges in a separate area, away from civilians."

Somali President Abdullahi Yusuf is expected to offer the clans a truce later Thursday.

Some analysts fear that the SICC could focus on guerrilla fighting, especially if Ethiopia fails to help Somali maintain long-term security.

Clan system

Somalia's complex clan system has formed the basis of the country's politics and identity for centuries.

But clan infighting has prevented Somalia from having an effective government since clan-based warlords ousted longtime dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991, thrusting the country into anarchy.

Two years ago, the United Nations helped set up the interim government. But until the past week, it had little influence outside of its seat in the city of Baidoa, in part because it had been weakened by clan rivalries.

The Council of Islamic Courts seized Mogadishu in June and went on to take much of southern Somalia after chasing U.S.-backed warlords from the city.

They were later joined by foreign militants, including Pakistanis and Arabs, who supported their goal of making Somalia an Islamic state.

While many Somalis appeared to welcome the law and order that came when the militiamen imposed Islamic law, others rejected the strict enforcement of Islamic codes.

The Islamists appeared to be unbeatable after seizing the capital, but they have been no match for Ethiopia, which has the strongest military in the Horn of Africa.

On Sunday, Ethiopia sent fighter jets streaking deep into militia-held areas to help Somalia's UN-recognized government push back the Islamists.

Ethiopia got involved after the Islamists tried to march on the government base of Baidoa.

Ethiopia's prime minister has said that his country was "forced to enter a war" with the Council of Islamic Courts after the group declared holy war on Ethiopia, a largely Christian country that has feared the emergence of a neighbouring Islamic state.
 

Dogboy

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the flip side is Somalia was calming down under the Cort's rule and stabilizing .
something the gov. in exile was unable to do.
and don't forget most Somalians hate Ethiopia for past wars.
and the fact that the gov.in exile was also made up of warlords as well.
but hey I guess their on our side.
 

retiredgrunt45

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It's ironic, heres two countries that can't feed their population's, but somehow they never have a problem buying bullets and bombs for their wars!

It seems theres a power struggle every few years in these countries, one warlord knocks of another and siezes power until the next one comes along and knocks him from the throne, its a damn merry-go-round. Meanwhile people starve to death or are caught in the crossfire.

They should send these war mongering idiots to a deserted island and give them each and atomic bomb and see which idiot will be the first one to push the button.
 

Yrys

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US wary of Somali 'terror' links

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6212321.stm

The United States has closely followed the gains made by Somali government
forces, supported by Ethiopian armour and troops, against Islamist militiamen.

Washington is determined to prevent the spread of fundamentalist Islam to Africa
and has been deeply concerned by the rise of the Union of Islamic Courts.
 
A

aesop081

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3rd Horseman said:
History correction - The UN won the war in Bosnia and Croatia

:rofl:

Wow, sorry for the late reply but i must have seriously missed something when i was there !!  There were some pitched engagements over there, yes, but saying that the UN won the war is a bit much, even for you.  You must have been in too deep to see the ineffectivenes of the UN i guess.
 

MarkOttawa

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Somalia War: A Bad Thing
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/008511.html

Trust a Globe and Mail reporter find to find "analysts" to criticize the US--remember the Islamists did bring "security" (and Hitler almost eliminated unemployment before the war)...

Mark
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MarkOttawa

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Stranded in a conflict zone
Somali-Canadians fear for families after Ethiopian-backed government troops trounce Islamists, regain Mogadishu

Toronto Star, Dec. 30
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/166429

Somali-Canadians are actively involved with both sides in the violent power struggle that rocked Somalia this week, but hundreds are also caught in the middle of the upheaval in the capital, Mogadishu.

Dual citizens who've left Canada in recent years to return to Somalia now hold key posts in the UN-backed transitional government and with its foes, the fundamentalist Union of Islamic Courts.

On one side, former Toronto grocer Abdullahi Afrah, better known as Asparo, is a senior leader with the Islamists who fled Mogadishu on Thursday in the face of a fierce assault by government forces, backed by Ethiopian troops, who finally regained control of the capital.

And on the other, 13 Somali-Canadians, most from Greater Toronto, are serving as parliamentarians in the 275-member transitional government that includes Ali Jama, the minister of information...

Sitting in Toronto, Abdirizak Mohamed is desperate to evacuate his family from Mogadishu, where they have been visiting family since the summer. But all international flights have been suspended, and martial law was to be imposed today.

"I've asked them to get on any flight that comes out of Mogadishu. I asked them to get out but I don't know.

"Only if the Canadian government gets involved, otherwise we are not in a position to do anything," said Mohamed, a community activist who works at the Somali-Canadian Cultural Club near Jane St. and Eglinton Ave...

...currently, there are no plans to evacuate Canadians from Somalia, according to Bernard Nguyen, a spokesman for the Department of Foreign Affairs in Ottawa...

A lack of Canadian military capacity in that region [emphasis added] could make evacuation difficult, according to historian Jack Granatstein, fellow of the Canadian Defence and Foreign Affairs Institute.

"I'd be surprised if there was a Canadian effort to evacuate or support evacuation in any form," said Granatstein. "We have no capacity to get in there. We'd have to beg space on British or American flights.

"Those fleeing would be Islamists, and the British and Americans are not eager to get them out."..

The "World's Finest Hotel" in action, with one of its houses divided against itself.  This business of dual nationals getting involved in politics abroad really is getting out of hand. The Brits and Americans have the right perspective, if Mr Granatstein is correct.

More here:
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/007849.html

Mark
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a_majoor

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There is an old saying about lying in the bed that you make.

In this and other cases (I recall hearing reports and rumors of people using Canada as a "safe haven" while being involved with one faction or the other in former Yugoslavia in the 1990's as well, and of course there is that little incident of "citizens" being trapped in Lebanon......) we need to step in and make a judgement call. Either there is some compelling reason for us as a nation to be involved, or there is not.

If not, then people who end up "over there" are private citizens who have made a choice to be there; frankly I do not think I should be compelled to pay for the negative consequences of their choices (I notice they are not very eager to share any positive fruits of their choices i.e. paying Canadian taxes). I would even go so far as to say that standing for public office in a foreign country should be grounds to suspend the Canadian citizenship. If we are getting in a big knot over Mr Dion's French citizenship, then the same arguments apply to a Canadian citizen in a foreign nation.
 

1feral1

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You know, I just don't care anymore. We're the Great Satan until they want our $$$.

Just remember, those kids we fed in 1993 are now carrying those AKs and ridng around with RPGs etc.

The next generations will be doing the same.

I say let 'em go at it, let 'em kill each other.

Cheers,

Wes
 

FredDaHead

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I find it rather amusing that the "citizens" they want us to rescue have been in-country "since the summer."

How many Canadians do you know that can take a 6-month vacation to a war-torn nation, or anywhere for that matter? Not many, I'd guess, so why don't we just declare their citizenship null and void and leave them there to fend for themselves? After all, they were quite happy to go off and stay there however long they could, until it blew up, so they should be fine with "visiting their family" for a little while longer.
 
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