Afghan Rapes & Canadian Soldiers' Duty

[Ex-Dragoon]

>Afghan warlords keeping boys as sex slaves: UN

Now all we need is for an Afghan news agency to pick up on certain stories and report something along the lines of "UN forces keeping children as sex slaves: Afghan warlords".

Hasn't that already occured in Africa and Bosnia?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Hasn't that already occured in Africa and Bosnia?

Yup and yup, as well as in Haiti and elsewhere.

Now all we need is for an Afghan news agency to pick up on certain stories and report something along the lines of "UN forces keeping children as sex slaves: Afghan warlords".

So, let's not mention any of the problems that need dealing with in AFG, lest we get painted with a propaganda brush saying we throw rocks while living in a glass house of our own? 

We couldn't talk about schooling girls in AFG, then, until we deal with EVERY "glass ceiling" issue here.  ("Canada building schools for AFG girls while women in Canada still earning less than men")

We shouldn't mention improving the AFG justice system, either, otherwise we'll hear about David Milgaard, Donald Marshall or Guy Paul Morin.

If we go down this road, we wouldn't even be able to mention helping make AFG streets safer to walk down because there are still streets in the Western world that aren't.

I understand it's not our role (nor would I want it to be given the task, given its history, scale and complexity to change society's attitudes re:  sexual abuse of kids.  We can have a role, though, in very narrowly and specifically shaping and affecting the behaviour of security forces.  Not how they think, but what they do.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Necrothread resurrected with new info


Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.

Claims of Afghan soldiers raping boys prompts Canadian investigation
David ******** ,  Canwest News Service,  3 Oct 08
Article link

The Canadian Forces will launch a board of inquiry to look into allegations that soldiers' complaints about Afghan troops and police raping boys were ignored by the military leadership.  Military police have also launched an investigation into the same incidents.  The issue surfaced in the summer after media reports detailed soldiers' concerns about sexual abuse of boys at the hands of Afghan personnel .... In July, Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Walter Natynczyk confirmed that a board of inquiry would be convened into the allegations.  The military is now ready to proceed, according to the Defence Department.  "We expect the board of inquiry to be convened in the coming days," an e-mail from a department official noted ....

More on link

 

[052]

I wonder if this becomes common place on the street. how a western soldier who had been abused as a kid would react seeing it every day, every parol?

 

[IntlBr]

I heard about this a few years ago from a friend who had been over, and witnessed it happening inside KAF between some buildings, and since then have heard that it is exceptionally common.

Anyone heard of  "Man Love Thursdays"?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Board of Inquiry convened to investigate circumstances of alleged assault by Afghan National Security Forces
CF news release NR – 08-082, 21 Nov 08
News release link

KINGSTON, ON– LtGen Andrew Leslie, Chief of the Land Staff, today announced that a Board of Inquiry has been convened at CFB Kingston to investigate the circumstances surrounding the allegations made last June of assault by Afghan National Security Forces members in the Kandahar Province, Afghanistan, in late 2006 or early 2007.

MGen Marquis Hainse, Commander of the Land Force Doctrine and Training System, is the convening authority and appointed BGen Glenn Nordick as the Board President leading a team of a minimum of eight members and advisors.

“We will examine and report on these allegations to determine what may have occurred, the circumstances surrounding these allegations, what the Canadian Forces responsibility is in instances such as these, what actions were taken as a result, and to make specific recommendations for the future,” said BGen Nordick. “Given the sensitive nature of these allegations, we will make every effort to involve and fully inform the Afghan government as we progress.”

“The Board of Inquiry will identify and interview all appropriate and available witnesses, and obtain all available relevant records and documentary evidence, consulting all pertinent legislation, regulations, orders, directives and instructions,” added BGen Nordick. “We will determine whether the allegations can be substantiated and whether such incidents were reported by the chain of command or other Canadian Forces networks, and the outcome.”

The Board of Inquiry will determine whether the incident, and the Canadian Forces response to it, resulted in changes to any applicable orders or directions, whether any similar incidents were reported since 2006 and if the response was adequate, having regard to all circumstances.

Upon completion of the work being conducted by the Board of Inquiry, a report will be forwarded to the Chief of the Land Staff. The findings, results and recommendations will be made public, subject to the limitations on the release of information imposed by the Privacy Act and the Access to Information Act.

The Board of Inquiry is expected to be completed in the spring of 2009.

-30-

Note to Editors: This BOI is not to be confused with the ongoing BOI into in-theatre handling of detainees, but rather stems from allegations reported in the media of possible abuse of Afghan minors by Afghan National Security Forces ....

 

[twistedcables]

How about: this is just more reason to stay and complete the mission?  Wait till you actually SEE it happen - good luck trying to get any sleep for the rest of your life.  Personally, I would (like to) shot the mo-fo in the left testicle - just giv the order SIR!

 

[medaid]

I think we can remove the question mark in the title and replace it with a period. It is an issue. Not maybe, or perhaps an issue.

 

[MG34]

Of course it's an issue, but one for the Afghans to sort out, not a bunch of crusading do gooders dressed in Cadpat. I could give a damn about their culture or their practices,nor should anyone else who was not born there. We are there to secure the country to allow reconstruction and support the government of Afghanistan, no where does it say we are to change the culture.

 

[twistedcables]

We affect foreign cultures inevitably and especially through military intervention.  Not to mention what the public has been sold on as to the reasons for the mission.  Sure some of them are very noble (girls schooling, opposing violent Islamic rule etc.) and yes, some of it, blatantly ideological (neo-con etc.).  Part of that message is grafted onto the soldier's psyche to make him/her more committed to the mission.  It helps, I guess.

But MG called it: the mission as far as we ought to be concerned is secure the country and support the elected govt.  I just worry about mental health blowback.

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

...one for the Afghans to sort out...We are there to secure the country to allow reconstruction and support the government of Afghanistan.

 

[The Bread Guy]

From what appears to be a PAK blogger posting a reportedly unpublished editorial about tolerating homosexuality, to give a bit of one person's view of the broader cultural issue....

....for years, homosexuality in Pashtun society has been an open secret, although it might well be exaggerated.  According to local tradition, many men live by the credo “Women for duty; boys for pleasure.”  Indeed, Afghans often dress up pretty boys as girls, and have them dance in public.  According to Afghan tradition, even birds cover their rear with their wings when flying over Kandahar....

 

[PanaEng]

Excellent thread! Good points for both  the extremes of the issue and the middle.

I tend to sympathize with 48th  view but we also have to keep in mind our priorities as a force that is part of a UN/NATO mission.
That being said, I couldn't look the other way while a violent crime is being committed - I'm talking about rape, etc. ROE's be dammed.
It is against their laws (sodomy, adultery, "man love" - check the Quran and Hadith) and against my principles - I would figure out ways to write it up later.

Brings to mind the hypocrisy of those who would stone a woman for showing some skin in public or being without a male relative escort but look the other way on rape (it is seen as the victims fault).

 

[The Bread Guy]

More on Canada's dilemma from Strategy Page:

.... Foreign troops operating in southern Afghanistan quickly learn that this is a place where men are men, even if they are sexually attracted to other men, and especially boys .... Naturally, foreign troops are told to be careful with local ways, and not offend Afghans by mocking or criticizing local customs that offend, or amuse, foreign sensibilities.

This puts the Canadian military in an uncomfortable position. To admit to knowledge of these pederast practices would oblige them to intervene to prevent such abuse of children. This, of course, would raise an uproar among Afghans. First of all, Afghans officially deny that such practices exist. Islam forbids it, even though homosexuality and pederasty is common in many Moslem nations. Many powerful men indulge, and will use force to deal with anyone who brings public attention to such activity. But the Canadian public may demand that Canadian troops aggressively seek to halt such activity. Since the Afghan men in question tend to be armed, this will get ugly quickly. 

Moreover, the Taliban and drug gangs have continued to recruit teenage boys for service as gunmen. Younger boys have been kidnapped, or bought from their parents, to satisfy the sexual needs of some Taliban and drug gang members. Underage kids are also used as suicide bombers. More boys than girls have been taken for sexual reasons....

 

[Babbling Brooks]

More from Rick Westhead at TorStar, and my response to it at The Torch.

 

[The Bread Guy]

....I'm told that the OMLT's and POMLT's are already advising the ANSF that they mentor that regardless of cultural traditions, it's unprofessional conduct from a force whose raison d'etre is the protection of Afghan citizens....

If this is happening, then I'm pleased something's being done - thanks for sharing this, BB.  As for any other allegations (none proven in any venue that I've heard of to this point, I might add), I'm happy to wait for the BOI report.  As for Dr. Byers, well, others have said it better than me....  :

- edited to add allegations info -

 

[pbi]

One thing is certain from the legal point of view: whatever would be considered a criminal offence in Canada is to be viewed by us as a criminal offence no matter where we are in the world. Homosexual acts are not illegal in Canada, but sexual assault against children is.  (And, by the way, is also illegal under Afghan national law).  That means (at a minimum...) that if we see it happening, we report it. But, just like in Canada, what happens after we report it depends on many things. Just because an OC or a CO took no overt action doesn't automatically mean that anything was covered up. There may not have been enough grounds to act. I'm happy to say that the officer in charge of the BoI is somebody I've known for well over twenty years, and I do believe he intends to do the best job possible. The results won't be nice, and they certainly will not satisfy everybody. BoIs rarely do.  But that is not a reason not to do them.

But, IMHO, we have a moral and ethical duty to investigate this matter that goes far beyond any narrow legalistic interpretation, or any desire to avoid embarassing the host nation. That is why we're having a senior BoI even though it seems that there may be very little hard evidence, and great difficulty in gathering any. Whether we like it or not, abuse of the weak by the strong is a universal ethical issue, regardless of whose moral code you choose to follow. And, IMHO, also whether we like it or not, we are about changing the culture in that country. For example, when things like police and govt corruption are so imbedded in the culture that they affect the operational outcomes of our mission to help the nation to self-determination, then the culture needs to change. The OMLTs and POMLTs, by professionalizing their respective parts of the ANSF, are changing culture. The Army has always been a very central and important institution in Afghanistan, so it's difficult to imagine that you could change its culture without having an effect on the rest of the nation.  The effects of a fully professional ANP on Afghan society would be enormous by anybody's estimate.

"Change", to me, does NOT mean we make them into little Canadians or little Americans, or tell them to abandon Islam or shave off their beards. What it does mean is that we do everything that is reasonably in our power to help  Afghans (especially those in positions of power) realize that some things they do are unethical. Not "immoral" which is a very culture-specific judgement, but unethical, which is far more universally understood and accepted. The long term solution in Afghanistan doesn't really lie in our hands as a military force anyway: it will be decided by changes to their education, their governance, and the way they relate to each other. If we just treat everything as a kinetic problem, and ignore the other stuff that we could usefully influence, IMHO we're making a mistake.

Cheers

pbi

 

[ENGINEERS WIFE]

Afghan sex-abuse allegations unfounded: military police

By Murray Brewster, THE CANADIAN PRESS
   
 
OTTAWA - Allegations that Canadian commanders turned a blind eye to sexual abuse of young boys by Afghan soldiers and police have been dismissed as unfounded by military investigators.

The Canadian Forces National Investigative Service, which oversees military police, says it has determined allegations made by returning soldiers and the pastors who counselled them contained "serious discrepancies" and could not be verified.

"There's rumours and innuendos of course, but there's no information to corroborate those allegations," said Lt.-Col. Gilles Sansterre, head of the investigative branch.

At least two soldiers have claimed they witnessed young Afghan boys being led into a Canadian forward operating base, where they were sodomized by Afghan troops and police.

"We interviewed a number of people that could provide us some information and the bottom line is that testimony of some people was inconsistent and could not be corroborated by others," said Sansterre.

"We've been led to the conclusion the allegations are unfounded."

Maj. Kevin Klein, a high-ranking chaplain, has said publicly he warned commanders in 2007 about accounts of sex abuse that he was hearing from soldiers.

Another chaplain, Jean Johns, said she counselled a Canadian soldier who said he witnessed a boy being raped and then wrote a report on the allegation for her brigade chaplain.

Despite their claims, Sansterre said military police found no evidence that the allegations were reported to the chain of command.

The investigation was thorough, and in the end there was no evidence Canadian military law was broken, he added.

The fact the alleged crimes happened in Afghanistan was a complicating factor in the investigation.

Sansterre said military police have jurisdiction over Canadian soldiers and civilians in the war-torn region, not Afghan nationals in their own country.

There wasn't even enough evidence to pass along to Afghan police for them to launch their own investigation, he said.

The allegations that Afghan soldiers, police and even interpreters sexually abused young boys while on Canadian bases in Kandahar also prompted a wider investigation involving a military board inquiry, which has yet to deliver its findings.

The NDP's defence critic called it an "unconvincing report" and accused the military of sweeping the matter under the rug.

"There's an effort here to close the file on this thing and I don't think that's the right thing to do," said Newfoundland MP Jack Harris.

"It's pretty clear that these reports were passed on to the chain of command and what we want to know is what was done about them."

Documents obtained by the New Democrats under the Access to Information Act show that after the allegations were raised in public, senior officers ordered to soldiers to report any suspected cases of abuse so they could flag them for investigation by Afghan officials.

The troops, however, expressed skepticism to padres in the field that much would be done about it - citing the Afghan tribal code of justice.

Pashtunwali "is very different from ours (system) and enforcement is not very effective," said the June 2008 monthly pastoral report.


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/12/9435221-cp.html

 

[The Bread Guy]

Highlights mine, from the news release:

The Canadian Forces National Investigation Service (CFNIS) has concluded its investigation into whether any service or criminal offences were committed by Canadian Forces (CF) members in relation to the alleged sexual abuse of Afghan male children in Afghanistan by Afghan National Army and Afghan interpreters.

The investigation determined that CF Military Police in Afghanistan did not receive any complaints on the alleged sexual abuse of Afghan male children.

The CFNIS investigated whether any service or criminal offences were committed by Canadian Forces (CF) members in relation to the alleged sexual abuse of Afghan male children by Afghan soldiers and by interpreters employed by the CF. It was determined that the initial allegations concerning such incidents contained serious discrepancies, could not be corroborated, were not reported to the chain of command and ultimately were not substantiated.

The investigation found no evidence that any CF members committed any service or criminal offences in relation to the alleged sexual abuse of Afghan male children. The CFNIS has no jurisdiction over Afghan National Army or locally contracted interpreters in Afghanistan. It has jurisdiction over Canadian citizens employed as interpreters in Afghanistan as they are subject to the Code of Service Discipline ....

and slightly re-worded from the Backgrounder:

....Findings

The CFNIS investigated whether any service or criminal offences were committed by Canadian Forces (CF) members, including by the Military Police, in relation to the alleged sexual abuse of Afghan male children by Afghan soldiers and by interpreters employed by the CF. The investigation concluded that all allegations were unfounded and that no service or criminal offences were committed by CF members Following are the findings of the investigation:

  1. During the course of the investigation, it was determined that the initial allegations concerning such incidents contained serious discrepancies, could not be corroborated, were not reported to the chain of command and ultimately were not substantiated;
  2. The investigation determined that CF Military Police in Afghanistan did not receive any complaints on alleged sexual abuse of Afghan male children; and
  3. The investigation found no evidence that any CF members committed any service or criminal offences in relation to the alleged sexual abuse of Afghan male children ....

Nothing from the Board of Inquiry yet ....

 

[GAP]

Mod edited to comply with Milnet.ca policy.

Milnet.ca Staff