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AESOp ( MOC 081)

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TUNETOG said:
I'm going to step away from that one and let Eye handle it from here.  :facepalm:

All in good spirits. No animosity intended. I'm sure he knows that.

>:D
 

Sub_Guy

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Neso said:
All in good spirits. No animosity intended. I'm sure he knows that.

>:D

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't...  With any luck your paths will cross, and I hope I am around when it happens, it should make for an interesting meeting.
 

Eye In The Sky

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TUNETOG said:
You were talking to Neso right, Eye?

Yup.

Neso said:
Eye, what's it like flying with your panties bunched so tightly?  ;)

Flying is awesome.  I flew this week, I fly next week, next month I get to go on a jammy TD, and again in October.  All that extra TD money means I can buy even MORE panties to wear around my hotel room.  In fact, my job is so awesome, not only do I not notice I am wearing panties, I could care less how bunched up they get.

Why don't you tell us what its like for you to NOT fly and have a slim chance of getting a CT in the next few years?  ^-^

Dolphin_Hunter said:
Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't...  With any luck your paths will cross, and I hope I am around when it happens, it should make for an interesting meeting.

Well, he is doing a CT so...I am sure when he gets it in...oh, 10 years or so, this will have been forgotten about.  ;D  Or, as paying attention to detail isn't important, he will fuck up the MOSID on his application and end up an ATIS Tech. 

The funny thing is I was serious.  Tunetog has posted enough times in the past 2 pages that anyone would realize he is a CT hopeful.  I can think of so many instances where paying attention to detail counts in the AESOP trade, regardless of what job you are doing, that I said it as advice and meant it. 

I'll just go back to thinking about flying next week, wondering what to do with all that spec pay and AIRCRA and ponder what to do on my NWD tomorrow that works out into a 3 day weekend.  Hopefully the hurtful comment about bunched panties doesn't ruin all that for me... :blotto:
 

Good2Golf

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Eye In The Sky said:
...I'll just go back to thinking about flying next week, wondering what to do with all that spec pay and AIRCRA and ponder what to do on my NWD tomorrow that works out into a 3 day weekend.  Hopefully the hurtful comment about bunched panties doesn't ruin all that for me... :blotto:

EITS, just skip the part where you get promoted and sent to NDHQ on the project staff as a SME...at least you'll keep spec pay...  ;)

I half jest, but in all seriousness, the projects are always looking to capitalize on talent and experience, and AESOps are relatively rare in the higher HQs open billets.  That may give you a little rest while Block IV is getting implemented, then you can get back to the line having been part of the team to help load the SGOD with more gucci kit for ops (and get AIRCRA back ;) ).

Cheers
G2G
 

ghostrider

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hello everyone,
ive been trying to get into the aesop trade now for about 3 years. I am a former Vehicle Tech and getting out of that trade through a OT is near impossible, so I refused my next contract and now I am trying to re-enter... it was the quickest way, this is my dream job. anyway my interview is on wednesday and my medical another 2 weeks after. but when i was at the recruiting office last they told me at first that i did not qualify for aesop due to CFAT score, but then they found out that i actually squeaked by due to a high math score, I was wondering how much is the CFAT score is taken into account when the board sits, they also told me there is only one more open position for this year for aesop DE. anyway the Canadian International Airshow was today here is some photos from the seaking demo, is this a SAR tech?
http://imgur.com/uZIn0VA,OCCswME,lxtgZ8m#0
http://imgur.com/uZIn0VA,OCCswME,lxtgZ8m#1
http://imgur.com/uZIn0VA,OCCswME,lxtgZ8m#2
 

h3tacco

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Not a SAR Tech. The first pic appears to be Rescue Randy (aka a "dummy") being deployed from the aircraft. The next two pictures it is either an ACSO or AES Op; both are trained to go down on the hoist for dry and wet hoisting.

SAR Techs are usually not employed on Sea Kings (though in the past they have been used when Sea Kings have taken Primary SAR for a period of time).
 

ghostrider

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thats awesome, they did a great job on there demo over the past 3 days i went to all of them, watching them is definitely a huge motivation. especially seeing them hang off that cable.
 

TUNETOG

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Eye In The Sky said:
The funny thing is I was serious.  Tunetog has posted enough times in the past 2 pages that anyone would realize he is a CT hopeful.  I can think of so many instances where paying attention to detail counts in the AESOP trade, regardless of what job you are doing, that I said it as advice and meant it. 

I'll just go back to thinking about flying next week, wondering what to do with all that spec pay and AIRCRA and ponder what to do on my NWD tomorrow that works out into a 3 day weekend.  Hopefully the hurtful comment about bunched panties doesn't ruin all that for me... :blotto:

{{{START RANT}}}

I'm not in a good place......again.
Here's an update to my situation. My broker (4th one since I started this) was posted at the end of June. I did my interview 13 May. As of the time of my broker being posted, she had not received my interview results from the BPSO here. Which I asked multiple times if they had sent it. So I kept checking with the CT cell....asking;

1 - who my new broker was, or if they knew when they would come
and
2 - if anyone had received my interview results.

NO REPLIES after multiple emails.

So I finally called the CT cell (early August)....at which point amazingly, they were able to realise that they hadn't received my interview results and that I indeed (maybe) had a broker. So the BPSO had to fax over my interview results (I'm guessing they never sent it). I am suitable for the trade now, and my file is good to go.

Since then I have tried to contact my broker, who has the following answering machine message;

"For ease of communication, do not leave me voicemail as I do not monitor my phone"........who does that, and how is that allowed in the CF!?

In any event, I have had good correspondence with my other brokers, but this one takes the cake. I have asked simple questions like;

"Will you notify me if the positions for this fiscal year are filled?"
"Did I get deemed suitable in time for this years boards?" - because if it didn't due to BPSO and the CT office not handling my file properly I will be putting in a grievance. I went without a broker from June until end of August when I finally called. Since then the only correspondence I've had from that "broker" is I'll get to you, be patient. If you have the time to respond like that to my emails, you have time to at least answer my questions. She tells me to be patient. My response (in my head of course) is that if I had been patient up until this point, I'd still be at the first steps of this process. Now that I'm finally on the cusp, my frustration with this process, and this person in particular is at a head. I want this career, I want it to happen......but if I'm left in the dark to plan mine and my families future, I'm going to start looking elsewhere. In fact I already have. It's still ridiculous to me that they will take so many DE's in a FY and not CT's/OT's. You're not going to retain people this way.

All of this is affecting me mentally, physically, as well as within my relationships with my family.
??? ??? ???      :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:    :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :mad: :mad: :mad:

{{{END RANT}}}
 

Eye In The Sky

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Not sure how your unit works BUT in the past, I've known Reg Force units to respond more...quickly...ya I'll use that word...more quickly to enquiries on the mbr's behalf from the RES unit RSS folks.

If you are that concerned, and it seems you have reason to be, then I would recommend talking to the next pers up from you in the RES CofC and seeing if the RSS WO can't make a phone call 'on behalf of the unit/mbr' to the Broker.  Right or wrong, that's the way the ball bounces sometimes.  Might want to give it a try.
 

TUNETOG

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Eye In The Sky said:
Not sure how your unit works BUT in the past, I've known Reg Force units to respond more...quickly...ya I'll use that word...more quickly to enquiries on the mbr's behalf from the RES unit RSS folks.

If you are that concerned, and it seems you have reason to be, then I would recommend talking to the next pers up from you in the RES CofC and seeing if the RSS WO can't make a phone call 'on behalf of the unit/mbr' to the Broker.  Right or wrong, that's the way the ball bounces sometimes.  Might want to give it a try.

Way ahead of you Eye  :nod:

I have started putting together an argument for grievence. Not because I didn't get a position. I understand there may be plenty of better qualified candidates. What I'm grieving is the CT process. It's broken. I've made a point form list of my experience from the time I got confirmation receipt that my CT application made it to D Mil C. All backed up by emails with Unit/BPSO/D Mil C. What I  need to find is the duties/responsibilites of a broker. In any event, I've got the ball rolling on this. There is a another member that I work with here with ROTP in that is dealing with the same broker. Their intent is to do the same, as they have had an even longer, worse experience dealing with the same broker.
 

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If I had to guess, I'd say there are probably only "2" Brokers for the entire operation and one of them spots is vacant.

http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/reo-oer/en/details.aspx?positionnumber=O-21243
 

Eye In The Sky

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And what is it you will be asking for in your grievance for adjudication?  I.E. 'what do you want for redress of the situation'? 

Take the benefit of my experience (including the CF grievance system);  go talk to your unit CofC and try the "reg force to reg force phone call" before you put any time into a grievance.

Think about it and please seriously consider the advice I am giving you. 

Ask yourself "what is my MAIN goal right now?".  It should be "to get a CT offer to AESOP". 

Your main concern right now (IMO) should be to ensure your completed CT application is in the pile the selection board gets to see, whenever the next board is sitting.

Do you know when the next one is sitting?  Not RUMINT...do you KNOW?  Is there a reasonable probability the Broker does know, and is working files for a MOSID whose board is sitting before AESOP, and they are actually managing their time the best they can despite a large file load?  If there is not a reasonable probability of that (in your mind), is it even just remotely possible?  If you don't think so, I am suggesting you to accept that could be what is happening.

As you've said, the new broker just got on the ground this APS.  So, they have to move, take leave, settle in, review files, prioritize AND respond to the direction from their CofC.  Their CofCs priority might not include your exact file.  Brokers are also CAF members and follow the day to day, week to week and month to month priorities they are assigned.  Keep that in mind. 

Let's pretend for the sake of ease that your Broker is managing 100 CT applications.  Let's assume that every single one of those applicants, on average, calls and emails each week and that is takes 15 minutes per week, per applicant, for the Broker to (1) listen to their voicemail and/or (2) read, file, action and respond to each email that they receive from each applicant.  15 minutes a week, per applicant.

That example alone is 25 hours/week of doing nothing other than listening to voicemail, reading and replying to email.  That is what, 62% of a 40 hour work week gone, with not one single minute dedicated to advancing a single file forward.

Don't get me wrong, I've done the CT waiting game and the OT waiting game.  You want to ensure your file gets in front of the selection board this year.  I don't blame you.  You are getting no real solid confirmation that your file is complete and ready to go/will be ready to go on the date required.

I get all that.

What I am suggesting is something that I have done before; cleared up something making a 'peer to peer' phone call. 

So, after taking the time to write this all out, I am still back where I was.  I am giving you advice based on a very good understanding of the workings of the CF grievance system.  Investing your time on a grievance, right now, will do NOTHING to help out your chances of having a file at the selection board.  NOTHING.  The Broker will not, IMO, go "OMG I BETTER GET THAT FILE MOVED NOW!!!!!!!". 

The sum total of  my experience (26 years and change) in how the CF operates, Reg and Res, and how the NCO-WO 'net' works, of the 'lowest level possible resolution' etc tells me that there is a very good chance a quick call between your broker and your RSS Sgt or WO is the first step you should take.  I would bet without a doubt a grievance will NOT help you achieve your goal.


I'll put my experience and knowledge up against Joe Blow who is trying for ROTP who is going out on the head-hunt.  This is a lead I suggest you do not follow.  Focus on the steak not the peas.  Steak = 'complete file before the selection board'.  Peas = 'anything that takes my focus away from or detracts from my being selected'.

My  :2c: from a "been there, done that" perspective.
 

TUNETOG

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Here's some answers to your questions and advice Eye.

And what is it you will be asking for in your grievance for adjudication?  I.E. 'what do you want for redress of the situation'? 

- More than anything, it's just to bring awareness that the CT system is not efficient/not working properly


Take the benefit of my experience (including the CF grievance system);  go talk to your unit CofC and try the "reg force to reg force phone call" before you put any time into a grievance.

- this is the plan

Think about it and please seriously consider the advice I am giving you.

- I do, and appreciate all of your correspondence so far.

Ask yourself "what is my MAIN goal right now?".  It should be "to get a CT offer to AESOP". 

- It is for sure.

Your main concern right now (IMO) should be to ensure your completed CT application is in the pile the selection board gets to see, whenever the next board is sitting.

Do you know when the next one is sitting?  Not RUMINT...do you KNOW?  Is there a reasonable probability the Broker does know, and is working files for a MOSID whose board is sitting before AESOP, and they are actually managing their time the best they can despite a large file load?  If there is not a reasonable probability of that (in your mind), is it even just remotely possible?  If you don't think so, I am suggesting you to accept that could be what is happening.

This is where my current problems reside. Since my last broker got posted, (June) I have had no word from D Mil C. I have read receipts from emails, but no replies. This was trying to find out if my interview results (completed in May) had been received, and if there was an ETA on a new broker. No replies. I eventually called someone on the mailing list at D Mil C. That prompted a reply end of July of "looking into it, MTF." I am still waiting for that reply. I got a verbal when I called again from a clerk at D Mil C that my file is suitable for AESOP and they had not gotten my interview results until after I called and got them on it. They had to call the BPSO to have it faxed. I also got verbal of who my broker was. The same person who had said they were looking into things. So I emailed her asking if she could confirm that she was my broker. As well if my file had made it in time for the boards this FY, seeing as someone dropped the ball with my interview results. She did not just get posted in. She has been dealing with a fellow colleagues file for over a year now. This colleague has had a similar experience dealing with her. Little to no comms and always canned answers in emails.

As you've said, the new broker just got on the ground this APS.  So, they have to move, take leave, settle in, review files, prioritize AND respond to the direction from their CofC.  Their CofCs priority might not include your exact file.  Brokers are also CAF members and follow the day to day, week to week and month to month priorities they are assigned.  Keep that in mind. 

Not a new broker

Let's pretend for the sake of ease that your Broker is managing 100 CT applications.  Let's assume that every single one of those applicants, on average, calls and emails each week and that is takes 15 minutes per week, per applicant, for the Broker to (1) listen to their voicemail and/or

as stated in her phone voicemail "for ease of communications do not leave me a voicemail as I do not monitor these means"

(2) read, file, action and respond to each email that they receive from each applicant.  15 minutes a week, per applicant.

All I've asked her is if she IS, in fact, my broker, and if she can say if the board is still yet to sit this year. She has taken the time to reply to me saying, "I will get to you when I have the chance, please be patient". If she has the time to write that. She has the time to write; Yes/No I'm/not your broker. Yes/No the board has/hasn't sat.


What I am suggesting is something that I have done before; cleared up something making a 'peer to peer' phone call. 

This is actually the point I'm at right now. Going through my CofC. Grievence is the wrong word for the moment. But let's say I've started building the case.

My  :2c: from a "been there, done that" perspective.

much appreciated Eye
 

thomasm77

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Ladies and Gentlemen,
I'm currently employed in the army, combat engineer, and have been for the last 6 years. The bulk of my thirties are behind me, my wife and I have started our family, and I've come to realize that my priorities have changed. After much discussion and and a fair amount of research and soul searching, I've decided that it may be time to break ties with the army and spread my wings. Get myself a grown-up career, ha.

I'm leaning heavily towards AESOP at the moment, although I am certainly keeping my options open. I'm looking for a career that offers a fair degree of stimulation day to day. I'm fond of challenges, and I'm also quite fond of being treated like an adult. The army, for all its positives, is geared towards a certain mentality. And frankly, whether it's my age or my life experience, I find that I'm not syncing with that mentality anymore. With roughly 18 years left on my TOS, I've decided that I would like to make a change sooner rather than later. For me and my family.

As such, I thought I'd start picking your brains, see what kind of information you all may have for me. Perhaps answer some questions that I don't yet know to ask.

So, is the grass really greener (bluer, perhaps) in the air force?
Is AESOP a career path that would be recommended? Will it provide fulfilment on a day to day basis? I know that's vague, but I'm hoping conversation will help narrow my fields of questioning.
What kind of advanced training or room for advancement is there?
How long do you stay as a working rank before you're grounded? MCpl? Sgt? In years?
What do you do day to? Are you flying fairly often, running the missions in the recruitment video? Or do you fly once a year and spend the rest of your time pushing a broom around? I would really like to do the job I train for more then once a year. Preferably daily.

I think that should be a good start for now.
Thanks in advance,
Tom.
 

SeaKingTacco

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Most of the AESOPs in our Sqn flew 50 hours last month (we are painfully short of AESOPs). Each mission is 2.5hrs long. You do the math on how much time is left over each month to push a broom (hint: zero).

It is a good career path if you are a self starter, a team player and don't mind deploying (you will deploy. A lot).
 

mariomike

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thomasm77 said:
Is AESOP a career path that would be recommended? Will it provide fulfilment on a day to day basis? I know that's vague, but I'm hoping conversation will help narrow my fields of questioning.
What kind of advanced training or room for advancement is there?
How long do you stay as a working rank before you're grounded? MCpl? Sgt? In years?
What do you do day to? Are you flying fairly often, running the missions in the recruitment video? Or do you fly once a year and spend the rest of your time pushing a broom around? I would really like to do the job I train for more then once a year. Preferably daily.

I think that should be a good start for now.

This may help,

AESOp ( MOC 081)
https://army.ca/forums/threads/22838.0
27 pages.
 

Sub_Guy

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I think if someone came into our office looking for someone to push brooms around, there'd probably be a fight, a good old fashioned give me the fucking broom fight.  We are so busy that pushing a broom around actually sounds like fun!
 

thomasm77

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I'm gathering from the chatter here that the OT process isn't a short one. That's rather disheartening. Sorry to hear your troubles Tunetog. I'm looking at AESOP myself, and have just decided to take the plunge and leave my comfort (or lack thereof) zone in the army. Any recommendations for a backup if AESOP continues to be a difficult goal to achieve?
 

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Or rather, if it turns out to be impossible to achieve. Difficult in and of itself won't dissuade me.
 
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