Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]

[Jorkapp]

Thanks for the info Guy.  Of course I understand that you have to compete, but it is nice to know that it is possible.  If anything, I would think that any military would want to encourage people to develop into other positions, whether other officer positions or NCM postions.  For instance some cool positions are only NCM and I would take a reduction in pay, etc, gladly to do them (e.g. SAR Tech).

Funny enough, I know a SAR Tech Sgt who was an AEC Capt. I asked him why he would give up his commission to do that, and he said he'd rather be jumping out of planes than be stuck in an IFRCC. I guess being able to do this job does not exactly equate liking it.

Transfers to NCM trades from Officers happen as well. I know AES Op and SAR Tech have their fair share of former officers.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if you are interested in a long-term career (and given the low intake number reality currently), maybe it's better to join NCM and then try later to transfer as opposed to waiting on civvy street for who knows how long for something that may or may not happen.  At least you'll be inside gaining experience in Aerospace controlling and will be earning a living.

Depends as to what you want out of a long-term career. Take a look at what an AC Op Pte/Cpl do, and ask yourself, "would I be comfortable performing those duties for the rest of my career", because there's no guarantee you'll get promoted beyond Cpl (some would argue, even Pte), and there's no guarantee you'll get an OT or a Commission. As well, take a look at the Cpl pay scales and contemplate if that would provide enough of a standard of living for you. You might be stuck at Cpl IPC 4 for some time (though Cpl IPC 4 is well paid by Canadian standards).

If it's not too private, do you mind if I ask why you want to go NCM?  I understand that with Officer positions there is more responsibility as you are a "manager" which is an additional stress and burden and there comes a time sometimes in a person's life where they decide they want to focus on their families or personal endeavours more which is totally understandable.  But wanted to hear your reasons if you are willing to share of course.

It wasn't so much a matter of I'm not suitable to be an Officer, but that I'm not suitable to be AEC. Lots of good officers go to CFSACO, but not many walk out with AEC wings. Last I heard, my IFR course graduated 5 out of 15, and I wasn't one of them.

Just FYI: AEC is an aptitude based trade, in that you either can do it or you can't. Other trades such as Pilot and ACSO are such trades as well, but have aptitude tests at the CFRC level. For AEC, the career course has been functioning as the aptitude test, with an unfortunate high consequence for failure They are working on developing and implementing some kind of aptitude test though.

When you fail an initial career course with a cease training recommendation, you either release from the CF, or pick a new trade. Since releasing was not an option (it would cost me a pretty penny to cash out my obligatory service from ROTP), I had to pick a new trade. The PSO gives you a monthly-updated list of trades that are open or closed for reassignments. In my case, I had a choice of Combat Arms or MARS if I wanted to stay as an Officer, and neither of those were particularly appealing to me. Since I knew the Aerospace world fairly well already, I decided to stick with it and go AC Op. Hopefully in a few years I can remuster to CELE and get my stripes back, but I'm content spending a bit of time in the ranks for now.

I have a degree, so I feel like I should "get my money's worth" and go Officer, but if you can have just as much fun, adventure, and challenge with less of the stress, then I would certainly consider AC OP.

As an NCM, having a degree is handy come PER season, as it's worth points under the education section. You won't be applying it per-se, but it does provide some value.

For fun and adventure, definitely. Lots of chances to do lots of cool things as both an AC Op and as an AEC. The Aerospace community is small too, so across Canada it's like a small family. Its not uncommon for those with 10-15-20 years in to know just about every AEC/AC Op they run into. I've had 2 bosses like that, and I suspect there are plenty more.

Stress is really a per-person, per-situation item. A Pte working 12 hour shifts may well be feeling as much stress as a Maj working a desk 8 hours a day. Your responsibilities change over time, and how they stress you is entirely an individual thing. Its not so bad though, no one I know has described being AEC or AC Op as exceedingly stressful.

Both are rewarding careers for sure, but both are different careers. Definitely there is lots to think about in deciding whether or not to take the plunge sooner rather than later. If AC Op is acceptable and you're willing to accept the ramifications, I say dive in! We'll put you to good use.

 

[take2]

Yes, the last IFR course graduated 5 out of 15.  Some left the course in the first few weeks and others in the last few weeks.  Even if you survive the academic side of the course, you never know when something aptitude related will catch up with you.  Several of us are now looking at NCM occupations since the degrees we have do not match up with the officer trades available and of interest.

 

[aesop081]

I know AES Op ...........have their fair share of former officers.

We do not.

 

[malamudagain]

Thanks take2 and especially Guy for your honesty regarding your reasons going to NCM. 
And also thanks for the other tips too.  Very insightful. 

 

[davidc89]

Hey all,

I just had a read through everything and just have a few questions.

I am at UVic (graduating in December), and started off in June 2007 in a Sigs O spot. Long story short, calculus and I did not agree and I changed degrees from Computer Science to a double-minor in Computer Science and History, which made me incompatible with Sigs. I've done BMOQ so that's out of the way, and needless to say, I am in the process of a COR. My grades are not stellar, but I am a qualified glider pilot and about 25 hours into a private pilot's license so I do have a decent aviation background, and on top of that, I had a brief look over my CFAT and it looked like I scored in the 93rd percentile. Basically the only reason I did not get AEC (or even a chance to go to Aircrew Selection) in '07 was my V4 medical category. I have since undergone a LASIK procedure and was cleared with a medical category 111225 (which I gather is about as high as I can go without an aircrew medical)

First off, I have my interview on Wednesday morning (August 10) with a BPSO and would like to know first off if there are a few spots left for internal transfer (I do not have DIN access), and secondly what the chances of a COR giving me the option of AEC based on current availability?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated,

Cheers,

David

 

[Globemaster77]

Noticed you said 60th percentile on CFAT, where as pilot was 38th?
Can anyone explain this "percentile" to me? Just curious about how good you need to do on the CFAT to qualify as AEC

 

[LOLslamball]

Noticed you said 60th percentile on CFAT, where as pilot was 38th?
Can anyone explain this "percentile" to me? Just curious about how good you need to do on the CFAT to qualify as AEC

I've been told that since the new AEC selection in Trenton is in effect that the CFAT scores are not looked at the same as they used to be.
Before AEC was only judged by CFAT score and now they have this selection.  When I was at the AEC selection one person had to retake their CFAT.

Also the scores mean nothing because they're not scored in ways we can understand with the knowledge we have about the tests.  ie getting 80% of the questions right doesn't mean you get 80%.

 

[Globemaster77]

I've been told that since the new AEC selection in Trenton is in effect that the CFAT scores are not looked at the same as they used to be.
Before AEC was only judged by CFAT score and now they have this selection.  When I was at the AEC selection one person had to retake their CFAT.

Also the scores mean nothing because they're not scored in ways we can understand with the knowledge we have about the tests.  ie getting 80% of the questions right doesn't mean you get 80%.

So it's not soley on CFAT? That's good to hear, but I'm still confused about this "Percentile".
If I'm right, 60percentile means I did better than 60% of the people who took the test, relatively speaking? So I would be the top 40% marks? I'm just worried about the English part, heard alot of people guess because half of them are ridiculously difficult words. Which I don't understand because I though most of CFAT was based on the grade 10 level. Not too worried about math/spatial though. Thanks in advance. And can I PM u for a few questions relating to AEC?

PS. Can you explain this "new" selection? I though trenton Was ASC?

 

[LOLslamball]

Traditionally the score for AEC on the CFAT was the highest standard.  ie if you qualify for AEC you qualify for every other trade.  There were/are also massive training failures (I have heard anywhere from 50-80%).  The testing at Trenton is meant to hopefully cut down the level of training failure by measuring aptitude for things that are important to the AEC trade.

I have been told absolutely nothing about my CFAT score other than that I did "above average" whether that is above the average of ROTP applicants, AEC specific applicants, applicants that are 183cm tall, or everyone who has ever written the CFAT I have no idea. 

Your CFAT score directly contributes to your merit list score.  Do as well as you can do and that's all you can do.  You know how many questions there will be and the time limit given.  Spend time studying instead of worrying how well you have to do.  It's not pass/fail (well you can fail) but there is no such thing as just a pass, to repeat myself, your CFAT score directly affects your merit list score.

AEC aircrew selection takes place at the ASC (aircrew selection centre) in Trenton.
CAPSS (Canadian automated pilot selection system), the simulator for pilots, also takes place at the ASC in Trenton.

Feel free to PM me any questions, or post them either way is good.

 

[Globemaster77]

Lol, how painful was the english part? Most people say that's the killer, words they never heard of.

 

[LOLslamball]

Honestly I don't remember, I wrote it in September.  I couldn't tell you one word that was on it even if I wanted to.  I studied hard for the math part and I do remember making it through the English section without too much trouble, but really just looking forward to destroying the math part.

 

[Globemaster77]

Honestly I don't remember, I wrote it in September.  I couldn't tell you one word that was on it even if I wanted to.  I studied hard for the math part and I do remember making it through the English section without too much trouble, but really just looking forward to destroying the math part.

lol, let me reword it. Were you good at English? Obviously you are fluent, but like school wise.

 

[Melbatoast]

I have been told absolutely nothing about my CFAT score other than that I did "above average" whether that is above the average of ROTP applicants, AEC specific applicants, applicants that are 183cm tall, or everyone who has ever written the CFAT I have no idea. 

"Above average" means your potential for achievement, based on your CFAT score, compared to the general officer population's CFAT scores (and presumably their later career achievement compared to their CFATs).  The best possible categorization is "superior," which I believe is the next step up.

I don't know what constitutes achievement for the CF, though.  Successfully completing training? Fast promotion? Who knows.

 

[LOLslamball]

lol, let me reword it. Were you good at English? Obviously you are fluent, but like school wise.

What do you consider good? I got B's in English throughout high school and improved and got an A in grade 12.

 

[LOLslamball]

"Above average" means your potential for achievement, based on your CFAT score, compared to the general officer population's CFAT scores (and presumably their later career achievement compared to their CFATs).  The best possible categorization is "superior," which I believe is the next step up.

I don't know what constitutes achievement for the CF, though.  Successfully completing training? Fast promotion? Who knows.

Thanks for the definitive answer, I didn't know those existed in regards to recruiting  ;D

 

[Globemaster77]

What do you consider good? I got B's in English throughout high school and improved and got an A in grade 12.

Well obviously an A is good, I'm in grade 11 and got 86 A.
Then I guess you can't really study for the english part, I mean you can't just read a dictionary.

 

[LOLslamball]

Well obviously an A is good, I'm in grade 11 and got 86 A.
Then I guess you can't really study for the english part, I mean you can't just read a dictionary.

For me I thought it would be most time effective to practice math and spatial problems.  Like I said it tells you how many questions are on each section and how long you have for each.  How you study is up to you.

 

[Bowen]

I'm currently in my first year at RMC, accepted as an AEC. I'm really looking into heading towards the Air Weapons stream, however, previously it was mentioned that it might be closed for a while because of the demand for it. This post dated back a couple years, so I was wondering if there was any update on IFR, VFR, and WPNS recruitment? Are they currently still all open? Are the majority of upcoming AEC's being put into ATC, or do most people who want Weapons get into it?

Thank You!

 

[Jorkapp]

I'm currently in my first year at RMC, accepted as an AEC. I'm really looking into heading towards the Air Weapons stream, however, previously it was mentioned that it might be closed for a while because of the demand for it. This post dated back a couple years, so I was wondering if there was any update on IFR, VFR, and WPNS recruitment? Are they currently still all open? Are the majority of upcoming AEC's being put into ATC, or do most people who want Weapons get into it?

Thank You!

You generally won't be slotted for VFR/IFR/Wpns until after you graduate from RMC, which for you is 4 years from now. Lots can change in 4 years, and plenty has changed in the trade in 4 years. You're best off engaging your CoC once you're finished RMC.

When I was an AEC, generally people were streamed according to their preferences. The streams don't "open" or "close", just some courses have a longer backlog than others. That said, they can just as easily order you into VFR or IFR despite your Wpns preference.

 

[xbowhntr]

The rumour going around our office is that the "core" phase will be reimplemented as part of the training system for AEC. This system sees students partake in a few weeks of AEC training encompassing all three streams. At the end of the phase, you submit your stream selection but your placement is dependant on a number of factors including your strengths and weaknesses through out the phase.