• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Acting Chief of Military Personnel on Diversity, Inclusion, and Culture Change Short-Term Initiatives

Eye In The Sky

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1,779
Points
1,060
There is certainly this aspect. Which is why I'm not proposing that they be eliminated entirely.



Sure, but that's counselling. Which is well within the social worker's wheelhouse. There are some members for which a religious-based form of counselling would be more effective, but as society becomes less and less religious over time, the degree to which we'd need Padres in that role is decreasing.


The problem is that, due to the impact of the religious doctrine, the ability to effect change can and will vary in ways that disadvantage already disadvantaged demographics in the CAF.

If there's a trans member who is experiencing harassment at their unit, I do not trust an ordained member of a religious organization which views the very existence of transgender people as an affront to their god to be able to come up with a solution that adequately deals with the harassment.

I would, however, trust a social worker to.

The only reason that you haven't seen social workers achieve "that type of effect" is simply because that's not how we've been using social workers.. Because we have Padres already filling that role.

And how are you proposing to remove biases and personal beliefs from Social Workers?

I attended my Wings’ FVAT workshop recently. One of the speakers was a civilian SW and FV specialist who constantly referred to the violent relationship mbr as “he” and the victim as “her”. The FV instance I was involved in (as the SWO) recently, the alleged victim was a male. The same mbr also went to MH, saw a SW who he said was next to useless. His word were “I could tell I was just another appointment on their calendar” and basically won’t go back.

I went to a Padre for advice on the situation because they have experience with this. There is a level of trust that has existed for decades between service mbrs and Padres, and I don’t practice any faith. I do however have trust in the Padre branch.

In the recent past, I was the DA to a VSI mbr. The Padre was an integral part of the care team. A SW - not.

Ref your part about a trans mbr; the Padre who supported me/the Wing I was on was a Rabbi. The VSI mbr was RC. When the VSI mbr wished to speak to a Padre, a RC Padre was contacted. There are simple solutions to these simple problems.

Suggesting SWs, with or without a Masters Degree (which I could care less about. Education and ability have been proven to not go hand in hand countless times) will come without their own personal beliefs, values and agendas is wishful thinking. They are people and all people bring those to the table.
 
Last edited:

Eye In The Sky

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1,779
Points
1,060
I've never seen a social worker steal from a mess and say nothing when junior members get blamed for their theft (until caught red-handed). I have seen that happen with a Padre.

Let's try to focus on generalities instead of whether or not one specific member you met once happened to be bad.

Certainly you can see the irony in your above post. Or do suggest the entire Padre branch are thieves?
 
Last edited:

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
2,029
Points
1,260
And how are you proposing to remove biases and personal beliefs from Social Workers?

I attended my Wings FVAT workshop recently. One of the speakers was a civilian SW and FM specialist who constantly referred to the violent relationship mbr as “he” and the victim as “her”. The FV instance I was involved in (as the SWO) recently, the alleged victim was a male. The same mbr also went to MH, saw a SW who he said was next to useless. His word were “I could tell I was just another appointment on their calendar” and basically won’t go back.

I went to a Padre for advice on the situation because they have experience with this. There is a level of trust that has exited for decades between service mbrs and Padres, and I don’t practice any faith.

In the recent past, I was the DA to a VSI mbr. The Padre was an integral part of the care team. A SW - not.

Ref your part about a trans mbr; the Rabbi who supported me/the Wing I was on was a Rabbi. The VSI mbr was RC. When the VSI mbr wished to speak to a Padre, a RC Padre was contacted. There are simple solutions to these simple problems.

Suggesting SWs, with or without a Masters Degree (which I could care less about. Education and ability have been proven to not go hand in hand countless times) will come without their own personal beliefs, values and agendas is wishful thinking. They are people and all people bring those to the table.

Great post! Food for thought!

Thank you.
 

Eye In The Sky

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1,779
Points
1,060
I've dealt with non-military social workers before. Perhaps military ones are different but I really can't see any trained social workers having the mindset to rub shoulders with their potential clients like chaplains do.

Ive tried to work with military SWO, a few different ones. I basically requested to be referred to a real SW and wrote a written statement of complaint with one of them. Seriously said that to the MH Nurse “can I see a real SW”.

The experience led me to believe all Officers should take the full BOTP; I in no way believed the mbr I saw would have made it and equally believed that mbr had no business being in uniform.
 

Oldgateboatdriver

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
331
Points
880
I am with EITS on this one.

While I don't believe in any organized religion (or any at all, actually), as DO, XO or CO, I have found that any time a Padre came round and said "Do you think we could chat for a moment" or words to that effect, it was well worth my time to clear the time needed and really listen to what they had to say.
 

SeaKingTacco

Army.ca Fixture
Donor
Reaction score
3,810
Points
1,010
The Chaplain branch is worth their weight in gold. In 37 years, I have literally met one padre I would not do business with again. I cannot think of another occupation in the CAF with that kind of record of competence (maybe I have just been lucky).
 

OldTanker

Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
96
Points
430
I have been retired from the CF for 20 years, and maybe things have changed, but in my 32 years service I called upon the support of various padres on numerous occasions, both for myself and my soldiers. I don't recall ever being let down, and the religious affiliation of the padre in question never mattered. The last instance was in 2018 when my father (WW2 vet and totally non-religious) was terminally ill and died, and I asked the padre of a local militia unit to both provide counselling services to my father and I, and officiate at the memorial service. All of which he did willingly and with great compassion. Of course the chaplain branch had its share of bozos like any other group but not enough to damn the entire group. The other service the padres provided was the "purple net", which often could bypass bureaucratic obstacles to solve the soldier's problems. I frankly could care less what denomination the padre was (and perhaps my use of that term implies some disposition to a particular denomination, but it really doesn't - just the habit of an old soldier). Our padres served with the unit, faced the same hardships, joys and challenges as the soldiers, and were there for them when needed. I can't say I ever saw a social worker in the field in a hooch, nor did I ever have the same comforting experience with a social worker that I had with a padre. Don't muck with something that works (or at least did).
 

Navy_Pete

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
1,352
Points
1,040
Maybe you misinterpreted my post. I actually agreed that a trans member wanting to join, would be ill-served by a religion that does not accept trans folks

How does that work in real life though? If we use Christianity as an example, there is a big difference between what the official party line is, what the national stance is, and then further division in different areas and then down to individual parishes. Grew up RC and the impact of the individual priest is massive, so can span from being intolerant to being actively and very vocally supportive of LGBT+. Weirdly enough there are gay and trans Catholics as well, with parishes that are actively striving to be fully inclusive and welcoming places for them. May be outliers in the broader global organization, but we're recruiting individuals, not institutions, and lots of individuals are parts of institutions that don't agree with the party line (which is constantly changing anyway).

Who is going to play the gatekeeper anyway and what religious alignments can't join?

This is a theoretical broad brushed recommendation based on some pretty shaky assumptions that is unworkable in real life and likely illegal in Canada. Being from a certain religion doesn't automatically translate into discrimination, and we have the tools to get rid of people that do discriminate, padre or not. The ship deployments have 250ish people living within 450' of each other for 6-8 months, and the RC padre was a huge help for everyone; everyone got the same kind and friendly treatment including the LGBT+ crew members, and the church service was open to everyone, regardless of beliefs or orientation.
 

SeaKingTacco

Army.ca Fixture
Donor
Reaction score
3,810
Points
1,010
My Det Chief asked the Ship’s Anglican Padre, with all seriousness, to bless the Helicopter after we had been having a bad run of serviceability.

The Padre took the request seriously, invented a short but solemn ceremony that was well attended. I was surprisingly touched by the effort he put into it and how thoughtful his message was.

Nobody, including the Padre, thought the blessing was going to “fix“ the helicopter. It was, however, a neat bit of psychology on the Detachment members . Never underestimate ceremony…
 

Eye In The Sky

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1,779
Points
1,060
My Det Chief asked the Ship’s Anglican Padre, with all seriousness, to bless the Helicopter after we had been having a bad run of serviceability.

The Padre took the request seriously, invented a short but solemn ceremony that was well attended. I was surprisingly touched by the effort he put into it and how thoughtful his message was.

Nobody, including the Padre, thought the blessing was going to “fix“ the helicopter. It was, however, a neat bit of psychology on the Detachment members . Never underestimate ceremony…

That is a nice story and post!
 

GR66

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
825
Points
1,040
I was very impressed by the Padres when I worked at the IPSC in Borden. I won't speak for the members and their families, but I know that the staff was very happy to have such solid support on hand.
 

Weinie

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
2,341
Points
1,110
He was the best Padre I have ever seen. Heroic, funny, compassionate, smart as a whip. I did have to stop him one day from offering physical violence to a particularly clueless PAO, but, to be fair, he was severely provoked and somehow his anger just endeared him more to me.
Get in line.
 

Weinie

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
2,341
Points
1,110
I stopped him before it got biblical…

Maybe my one good deed!
You are going straight to Heaven. St. Peter will just nod when you approach.

Edited to add: You should have let him kill him; pour encuorager les autres.
 
Top