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A "Why" Dress Thread split from OCdt Speaks at Freedom Rally

SupersonicMax

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No I have no ever had dirty parade boots. But if I did...what Chap/Sect/Para of 265 I am contravening?
You must be some kind of wizard to never have had dirt or dust on your parade boots, EVER!!

The section is para 20 in section 2.
 

SupersonicMax

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A fair point.

What's the solution to the problem then?
Solution? Before admonishing someone for dress, perhaps it’d be useful to understand the context behind the “why” someone may be out of dress and show leniency and flexibility when someone acts in good faith.
 

OldSolduer

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Solution? Before admonishing someone for dress, perhaps it’d be useful to understand the context behind the “why” someone may be out of dress and show leniency and flexibility when someone acts in good faith.
I'd agree with that. Mind you there still will be a reprimand but milder.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Not a wizard...I just can't get something dirty that doesn't even exist....better read your ref again.
 

SupersonicMax

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Not a wizard...I just can't get something dirty that doesn't even exist....better read your ref again.
Here’s the paragraph, in French:


Chaussures
  1. Les souliers de cuir, les richelieus, les escarpins et les bottillons doivent être propres et bien cirés en tout temps.”

The definition of “botillons” in French is “Petite botte, dont la tige monte au-dessus de la cheville.”

If that doesn’t include parade boots, I don’t know what would. I can’t believe you are arguing that your parade boots (or whatever you call them) are not covered by this paragraph.
 

SupersonicMax

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There is no such thing as parade boots. Not sure what to tell you, except "pay attention to detail".
Parade boots (bottes de parade) is a colloquial term for boots ankle (bottillons), which is widely used outside of the dress manual. I am surprised I have to explain this to you, derailing the intent of the thread on the way.
 

LittleBlackDevil

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This is an MPC H&A. Clothing stores for the NCR is in Quebec, the border to which was closed for non essential travel for the last while. I personally do not consider getting my monkey suit appropriately tailored during a global pandemic where a whole lot of folks haven't, for a variety of valid reasons (as validated by the current abeyance of Force Testing), been keeping up their PT routine - to be essential business.

What are the valid reasons for not keeping up a PT routine?

I ask honestly, not trying to be a jerk. I understand that you can't go to the gym -- I haven't been to a gym since early March of 2020 -- but why shouldn't can't people still do jogging, rucking, pushups, air squats, and other such good things at home (or on streets around their home)? I believe even the strictest stay-at-home orders made allowances for outdoor exercise.

Especially from a CAF perspective I am missing why it is acceptable to let one's self go. I can understand cancelling the Force Testing because testing involves contact with others.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Parade boots (bottes de parade) is a colloquial term for boots ankle (bottillons), which is widely used outside of the dress manual. I am surprised I have to explain this to you, derailing the intent of the thread on the way.

You don't need to explain anything to me...I've known for 32 years there are ankle boots, but no parade boots.

I think, honestly, it's evident that you are the one who figured out there's no such thing as parade boots in the course of your own posts and my verbal cues. "LEVEL 3 - Student completed the task, making only minor errors. Student required minimal verbal cues to analyze and/or correct errors...the errors may not be serious, but they prevent the student from being as effective as they should be...". ;)

You did say, specifically, parade boots; here's the link, in case you need to refer back to your post. A "Why" Dress Thread split from OCdt Speaks at Freedom Rally

Derailing the thread? You must have experienced that differently. I can't help it if your detail(s) aren't correct. You asked me about parade boots, I answered. You referred me to CFP 265, Ch 2, Sect 2, Para 20...again, there is no 'parade boots' found there. Like I suggested...attention to detail.

Enjoy your weekend...
 

Navy_Pete

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What are the valid reasons for not keeping up a PT routine?

I ask honestly, not trying to be a jerk. I understand that you can't go to the gym -- I haven't been to a gym since early March of 2020 -- but why shouldn't can't people still do jogging, rucking, pushups, air squats, and other such good things at home (or on streets around their home)? I believe even the strictest stay-at-home orders made allowances for outdoor exercise.

Especially from a CAF perspective I am missing why it is acceptable to let one's self go. I can understand cancelling the Force Testing because testing involves contact with others.

Physical injuries, mental health issues, long COVID, etc. etc etc. Also appearance doesn't always track with fitness. I'm tall and skinny but after not being able to breathe properly for a year after getting sick betting most overweight people could outrun me, and generally kick my ass on a FORCE test, but I guess at least my uniform fits properly. Really happy to be in recovery now but holy crap did a year of inactivity/illness really crush my fitness level.

In any case, we probably shouldn't be slagging someone off for a PR photo, bit of a dick move.
 

SupersonicMax

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You don't need to explain anything to me...I've known for 32 years there are ankle boots, but no parade boots.

I think, honestly, it's evident that you are the one who figured out there's no such thing as parade boots in the course of your own posts and my verbal cues. "LEVEL 3 - Student completed the task, making only minor errors. Student required minimal verbal cues to analyze and/or correct errors...the errors may not be serious, but they prevent the student from being as effective as they should be...". ;)

You did say, specifically, parade boots; here's the link, in case you need to refer back to your post. A "Why" Dress Thread split from OCdt Speaks at Freedom Rally

Derailing the thread? You must have experienced that differently. I can't help it if your detail(s) aren't correct. You asked me about parade boots, I answered. You referred me to CFP 265, Ch 2, Sect 2, Para 20...again, there is no 'parade boots' found there. Like I suggested...attention to detail.

Enjoy your weekend...
Just like a F-18 or CF-18 or CP-140 do not exist in official documentations, “parade boots” is colloquially used and understood by the vast majority. It should not detract from a conversation like it has. But it detracted enough for you to avoid answering a question…

I just asked an aviator if he knew what “parade boots” were. He knew. I expect you also knew what it meant but someone picked an argument over colloquial terms vs official terms. Because something is colloquial doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
 

Eye In The Sky

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CP-140 do not exist in official documentation

Beer Ok GIF by Busch



Unless...it does exist in official documentation...
 

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SupersonicMax

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The “-“ is used for PA purposes but if you look in any technical documentations, it is not there. It is a colloquialism.

“There’s one more point about aircraft names. Sometimes you might see the five-character alpha-numerical designation (CC-130, CT-114, etc.) written with a hyphen and sometimes without. The official designation is without the hyphen, which is the way the designations are written in official DND documents and internal communications. But that little piece of punctuation is added in communications destined for audiences outside the Canadian Armed Forces.”

(News Article | What IS that RCAF bird called?)
 

Remius

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We have dress regs or we don’t. Time and place and common sense should always be considered. Situations can vary. Pictures don’t always tell the whole story.

Anecdote. Before beards were allowed we enforced no beards. Medical chits exempted of course but we still enforced proper grooming. Ensured chits were up to date etc.

When beards were allowed, some troops thought the senior NCOs were going to lose their minds for some reason. Most of us grew beards and wore them correctly. Properly groomed. To show them the standard. Some junior guys were surprised. Not sure why. We enforced the regs. Beard, no beard. I don’t care one way or another on a professional level. If it’s in the dress regs we try to follow those rules. Same reason I won’t accept a civilian belt in DEUs or half assed tied knot tie or whatever. If the rules change for those things I’ll enforce them accordingly. Until then, using good judgement, we shouldn’t let things slide.
 
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