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A Deeply Fractured US

Xylric

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FJAG said:
The problem with any organization that advocates for social change and sees limited success is that it's leadership changes to the ever more radical elements who set ever more extreme goals.

There comes a point where the original moderate activists abandon the movement and society in general either draws a line in the sand and says "this far and no more" or becomes reactive and pushes back. How society does that is the question.

I inadvertently walked into an Anarchists' march in Strasbourg once. There was a very limited police presence at the march although hundreds of riot police in small vans were strategically deployed around the edges. After the march a small army of workers had all the spray painted graffiti washed or sandblasted away and broken glass repaired. By the next morning it was as if nothing had ever occurred. No baton was ever raised; no tear gas ever fired.

:cheers:

I certainly think that escalation to violence is often genuinely wanted by elements on both (or more) sides of a conflict, dragging everyone else along off the cliff. One might be tempted to respond to these protests the same way one might deal with an obstinate toddler. When my brother and his wife have difficulty getting my niece down to sleep, they simply leave her alone (unless there is clear necessity in her noise), and she slips into slumber on her own. The problem is, it isn't toddlers that are involved with this situation.
 

daftandbarmy

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Xylric said:
I certainly think that escalation to violence is often genuinely wanted by elements on both (or more) sides of a conflict, dragging everyone else along off the cliff. One might be tempted to respond to these protests the same way one might deal with an obstinate toddler. When my brother and his wife have difficulty getting my niece down to sleep, they simply leave her alone (unless there is clear necessity in her noise), and she slips into slumber on her own. The problem is, it isn't toddlers that are involved with this situation.

I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what’s going on in Seattle right now with their little ‘no go’ area. Charging in with the batons would fall right into the plans of extremists. Far better to let the locals get p@ssed of first and ask for help in getting them to leave.
 

Brad Sallows

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Everything depends on whether reforms are meaningful or decorative.

Know the rules, follow the rules, enforce the rules, teach the rules.

A hypothesis: there are already plenty of rules, the rules are taught and periodically reviewed and updated and re-taught, the students understand.  The problems start at "follow" and "enforce", and since failure to follow is usually corrected by enforcement, "enforce" is the weak point.  Without enforcement, all we get is a pause until the next period of unrest.
 

Kat Stevens

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Brad Sallows said:
No-one needs to "retake Seattle".  It's 6 blocks.  When the shit piles up and the food runs out and the rapes and assaults begin, the activists will lose their enthusiasm.

Or, they start foraging farther afield for more opportunities to be (...). Rot almost never stops on it's own.
 

tomahawk6

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Brad as you should know inaction is not the way forward. The election is in 5 months so how will people be able to vote if their city abandons them ? Maybe other cities will see the same disorder. The British Army did not back off in Ireland or even Boston during our own revolution.
 

Jarnhamar

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[quote author=tomahawk6]The election is in 5 months so how will people be able to vote if their city abandons them ?
[/quote]

Mail in the ballots ;)
 

OldSolduer

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Target Up said:
Or, they start foraging farther afield for more opportunities to be (...).  Rot almost never stops on it's own.

Cordon it off. Arrest those that try to get out.
 

Brad Sallows

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>how will people be able to vote

I'm sure the sight of people being escorted to, say, an advance polling location while the members of the autonomous collective do their best monkeys-throwing-scat imitation will be something at least one political party will not want on TV.
 

Remius

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Brad Sallows said:
No-one needs to "retake Seattle".  It's 6 blocks.  When the crap piles up and the food runs out and the rapes and assaults begin, the activists will lose their enthusiasm.

Similar to the occupy camps we had a few years ago.

Just turn off the power and water. And wifi.
 

mariomike

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There are a lot of toppings you can put on pizza ...glass should not be one of them.

National Guardsmen found glass baked into pizza they ordered while on DC deployment.
https://www.postandcourier.com/news/2-sc-national-guardsmen-found-glass-baked-into-pizza-they-ordered-while-on-dc-deployment/article_f402ada4-aa7f-11ea-adfa-23420e017a92.html
 

Blackadder1916

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https://www.newsweek.com/south-carolina-national-guard-says-glass-found-troops-pizza-while-deployed-dc-protests-was-1510344?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1591912259

South Carolina National Guard Says Glass Found in Troops' Pizza While Deployed to D.C. for Protests Was Unintentional

National Guard members from South Carolina said they found glass baked into a pizza they ordered while deployed in Washington, D.C., according to a spokesperson for the state military organization.

Captain Jessica C. Donnelly, the S.C. National Guard's Director of Public Affairs, told Newsweek on Thursday that the incident, reported June 3, was isolated and seemed accidental. Donnelly confirmed the National Guard members were unharmed and did not file a report with the Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police Department (MPDC).

"No one believes that it was intentional or meant to cause harm," she said. "The service members are okay. It was a single incident. Their command said the Soldiers were advised to file a report with local police department. From my understanding they chose not to. There is no additional information to report."
 

daftandbarmy

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Blackadder1916 said:
https://www.newsweek.com/south-carolina-national-guard-says-glass-found-troops-pizza-while-deployed-dc-protests-was-1510344?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1591912259

South Carolina National Guard Says Glass Found in Troops' Pizza While Deployed to D.C. for Protests Was Unintentional

National Guard members from South Carolina said they found glass baked into a pizza they ordered while deployed in Washington, D.C., according to a spokesperson for the state military organization.

Captain Jessica C. Donnelly, the S.C. National Guard's Director of Public Affairs, told Newsweek on Thursday that the incident, reported June 3, was isolated and seemed accidental. Donnelly confirmed the National Guard members were unharmed and did not file a report with the Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police Department (MPDC).

"No one believes that it was intentional or meant to cause harm," she said. "The service members are okay. It was a single incident. Their command said the Soldiers were advised to file a report with local police department. From my understanding they chose not to. There is no additional information to report."

The Irish used to do that with cups of tea for the Troops. It helps if you grind the glass into a fine powder so it’s suspended in the fluid.

Too bad for them we used to record the addresses of people who tried to give our guys tea :)

 

mariomike

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Reminds me of the "special sauce".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YtKMYDDpKE
 

Blackadder1916

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daftandbarmy said:
The Irish used to do that with cups of tea for the Troops. It helps if you grind the glass into a fine powder so it’s suspended in the fluid.

Too bad for them we used to record the addresses of people who tried to give our guys tea :)

Except, in the case of the SC Guardsmen who reported that they received a pizza with glass in it, they ordered it using Uber Eats, so they had no direct communication with the restaurant that prepared their food and even the communication with Uber Eats is by an app that, while it may identify the user, doesn't provide any info as to one's temporary occupation, especially to the food preparer or even the driver who delivers the grub.

However, it should still be an important lesson that, regardless of the circumstances of deployment, using non-approved or unverified food and water sources are force protection issues.
 

mariomike

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Blackadder1916 said:
Except, in the case of the SC Guardsmen who reported that they received a pizza with glass in it, they ordered it using Uber Eats, so they had no direct communication with the restaurant that prepared their food and even the communication with Uber Eats is by an app that, while it may identify the user, doesn't provide any info as to one's temporary occupation, especially to the food preparer or even the driver who delivers the grub.

I remember reading the way the White House ( and I suppose others ) does it, is they have the pizza / food delivered to a friendly nearby "safe house".

From there, the Secret Service ( or whoever you trust ) delivers it personally to the White House ( or wherever ).



 

Good2Golf

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mariomike said:
I remember reading the way the White House ( and I suppose others ) does it, is they have the pizza / food delivered to a friendly nearby "safe house".

From there, the Secret Service ( or whoever you trust ) delivers it personally to the White House ( or wherever ).

I’d figure the CIA has a field officer training facility in town that actually makes pizzas (amongst other things) and delivers from that to an FBI safe house, thence to a DHS safe house, to a Secret Service FOL, and finally to the WH. ;D
 

blacktriangle

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Blackadder1916 said:
Except, in the case of the SC Guardsmen who reported that they received a pizza with glass in it, they ordered it using Uber Eats, so they had no direct communication with the restaurant that prepared their food and even the communication with Uber Eats is by an app that, while it may identify the user, doesn't provide any info as to one's temporary occupation, especially to the food preparer or even the driver who delivers the grub.

However, it should still be an important lesson that, regardless of the circumstances of deployment, using non-approved or unverified food and water sources are force protection issues.

Someone can still quickly google the name that comes in. Someone can still make assumptions based on time, location etc. That's assuming that you were just dealing with some disgruntled citizen or low-tech protester type, and not someone more methodical.

So while I'll argue your first point, your second point is definitely valid.
 

Weinie

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Good2Golf said:
I’d figure the CIA has a field officer training facility in town that actually makes pizzas (amongst other things) and delivers from that to an FBI safe house, thence to a DHS safe house, to a Secret Service FOL, and finally to the WH. ;D

I wonder how many the White House staff order to start with, and then pieces wolfed down at the transfer points whittles the number on the way. They have probably figured you need to order 12 to get 6. Not that I would (have) engage(d) in anything like this despicable practice.
 

daftandbarmy

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Weinie said:
I wonder how many the White House staff order to start with, and then pieces wolfed down at the transfer points whittles the number on the way. They have probably figured you need to order 12 to get 6. Not that I would (have) engage(d) in anything like this despicable practice.

Wise leaders count on that happening do they don’t have to be criticized for hiring official ‘food tasters’.

:)
 
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