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A Deeply Fractured US

Kat Stevens

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Clearly, the world is a very dangerous place.  If it weren't, every PC wouldn't be driving around with an AR 15, errr patrol carbine, in the trunk.  Sure glad I don't have one.
 

CBH99

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Most police services in Canada have patrol officers equipped with a C8 in the vehicle, no?

Isn't really visible to the public unless someone is pressing their face up against the window, or in the back seat.  Far more useful than the old shotguns they used to have.


As an LEO, you do need a heavier weapon than a .40 pistol, for the odd occasion when poop hits the fan.  Better to be armed with something versatile, quick to deploy, and useful in many situations than a big shotgun armed with slugs.  :2c:



I don't think the argument here in Canada is whether patrol officers should have a C8 - or something similar - in their vehicle as a secondary weapon.

The argument is why some American police departments are so highly armed, and so quick to escalate, while their professional standards/internal affairs sections seem so complacent, and recruiting standards can be so low.  (Not everywhere, obviously).



Let's remember, Sheriffs are elected and can hire their own deputies - unlike many municipal services/departments.
 
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stellarpanther

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This is the fractured US thread.  I'm not talking about what equipment we have here in Canada as some have pointed out.  From what I've seen, our cops with the exception of the tactile teams don't look like they're on the way to WW3.  I was referring to U.S police who often look like they're about to do battle with a Russian infantry platoon. 
 

Remius

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stellarpanther said:
This is the fractured US thread.  I'm not talking about what equipment we have here in Canada as some have pointed out.  From what I've seen, our cops with the exception of the tactile teams don't look like they're on the way to WW3.  I was referring to U.S police who often look like they're about to do battle with a Russian infantry platoon.

Some people they deal with are armed like Russian infantry platoons I bet.

Remember this incident.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-stolen-tank-rampaged-san-diego-streets-16-years-ag-2011may17-htmlstory.html

An extreme example but your post made me think of it.

Wikipedia has a good summary of the militarisation of police forces.

There is small section on Canada that seems tame.

The US section is scary.  50 cal sniper weapons.  Armoured fighting vehicles etc. They seem to get a lot of surplus stuff from the army.  But they showed a picture of a cop in the 30s with a Thompson sub machine gun. I guess it isn’t that new of a thing in the US.





 

Weinie

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reverse_engineer said:
I wouldn't want to handle public relations for that team.  ;D
Tactility is the only reason for this thread.
 
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stellarpanther

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Tactical team... I really need to read what I type before posting.  ;D
 
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stellarpanther

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CBH99 said:
Most police services in Canada have patrol officers equipped with a C8 in the vehicle, no?

Isn't really visible to the public unless someone is pressing their face up against the window, or in the back seat.  Far more useful than the old shotguns they used to have.


As an LEO, you do need a heavier weapon than a .40 pistol, for the odd occasion when poop hits the fan.  Better to be armed with something versatile, quick to deploy, and useful in many situations than a big shotgun armed with slugs.  :2c:



I don't think the argument here in Canada is whether patrol officers should have a C8 - or something similar - in their vehicle as a secondary weapon.

The argument is why some American police departments are so highly armed, and so quick to escalate, while their professional standards/internal affairs sections seem so complacent, and recruiting standards can be so low.  (Not everywhere, obviously).



Let's remember, Sheriffs are elected and can hire their own deputies - unlike many municipal services/departments.

These are my thoughts exactly.  The patrol officers may come across situations where they need a bit more firepower than their issued pistols but there's a limit.  I'm obviously being sarcastic but if you leave it to some of the police departments in the U.S, it won't be long before you start seeing patrol officers pulling rocket launchers out of their trunks instead tire spike strips.
 

lenaitch

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Brihard said:
Gonna be interesting to see how this all plays out.

By all means take a lot of this work from us. I’d love to not have to worry about dealing with people in mental health crisis, or drunk homeless guys sleeping in an apartment or bank lobby, or attend domestics or neighbour disputes. I’d love to let the addictions counsellors deal with the guy who sells meth or fentanyl to feed his own habit. It would be an absolute treat to have someone else rounding up the drunk and violent group home runaways on a constant basis (ever seen a 15 year old girl with half a bottle of vodka in her bite a paramedic?) Please, hand these arguably non-police situations over to someone else, and we’ll happily be just a few minutes away when the social worker gets a knife pulled on them or gets sucker punched by the pissed off husband. I’d love to see us devote more resources to intelligence led, problem-oriented policing. I’d love to see us throw more bodies at bigger scale, longer term investigative projects instead of dealing with this stuff. It would be great to put more members out there hunting for impaired drivers.

Just understand that there is a consequence to removing police entirely from some of these equations. Make sure the social workers and addictions counsellors and mental health first responders have good life insurance and good long term disability plans.

Absolutely.  Of course, if the police are subsequently called, it means the situation has gone completely pear-shaped, only now there are more people involved and possibly wounded responders.  A closer reality would be the police might not be moments away because it seems the goal of many is to have less police, so they might be on their own for a while.  Some folks won't be happy until there are mental health responders, domestic assault responders, homeless responders, all running around chasing their own silos.
 

mariomike

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Depends on the jurisdiction. I was only familiar with one.

Where I served, paramedics could Delay Service ( ie: wait for police ) if:

a. there is an active shooter scenario, or
b. there is direct evidence of ongoing violence;
https://army.ca/forums/threads/132483/post-1614881.html#msg1614881



 

Ironman118

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CBH99 said:
Most police services in Canada have patrol officers equipped with a C8 in the vehicle, no?

Isn't really visible to the public unless someone is pressing their face up against the window, or in the back seat.  Far more useful than the old shotguns they used to have.


As an LEO, you do need a heavier weapon than a .40 pistol, for the odd occasion when poop hits the fan.  Better to be armed with something versatile, quick to deploy, and useful in many situations than a big shotgun armed with slugs.  :2c:



I don't think the argument here in Canada is whether patrol officers should have a C8 - or something similar - in their vehicle as a secondary weapon.

The argument is why some American police departments are so highly armed, and so quick to escalate, while their professional standards/internal affairs sections seem so complacent, and recruiting standards can be so low.  (Not everywhere, obviously).



Let's remember, Sheriffs are elected and can hire their own deputies - unlike many municipal services/departments.

Ill leave this here:

https://youtu.be/ymznwY2kbEU

Ex-SWAT and military member in the US breaks down "defund the police" and that weird infographic thats been circulating around..touches on a lot of what people here are talking about..escalation and so forth.
 

Ironman118

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Remius said:
The US section is scary.  50 cal sniper weapons.  Armoured fighting vehicles etc.

I mean, up until JT forced the latest gun ban, anyone in Canada with a license could own a .50 cal as well. Keep in mind that the gun laws in the states are a LOT more lax than ours, so yeah it might look bad optics wise that the police have decked out m4's and gucci tac gear..but when the guy whose house youre about to do a door knock on probably has something with a drum mag in it that isnt a .22.. youre going to want all that fancy crap to get the edge over them.
 

mariomike

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Ironman118 said:
I mean, up until JT forced the latest gun ban, anyone in Canada with a license could own a .50 cal as well. Keep in mind that the gun laws in the states are a LOT more lax than ours,

For anyone old enough to remember the North Hollywood Shootout,

The legal and cultural fallout of the crime had to do with just how much firepower the cops should be carrying, if outlaws find it so easy to purchase AK-47s at gun shows.



 

mariomike

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Brihard said:
By all means take a lot of this work from us.

As U.S. cities look to defund their police departments, I believe you will find a common thread as to who they think will be picking up the slack. 
 

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stellarpanther

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mariomike said:
As U.S. cities look to defund their police departments, I believe you will find a common thread as to who they think will be picking up the slack.

I'm getting old... Emergency, Squad 51.  I started watching it shortly after it was discontinued but thankfully it was still popular so I was able to watch reruns.  We need to go back to the Hill Street Blues days!  My favorite TV series off all time.

 

mariomike

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stellarpanther said:
Emergency, Squad 51.  I started watching it shortly after it was discontinued but thankfully it was still popular so I was able to watch reruns.  We need to go back to the Hill Street Blues days! 

To me, "Adam-12" and "EMERGENCY!" portrayed the professionalism of Officers Jim Reed and Pete Malloy / Paramedics Johnny Gage and Roy DeSoto.

They represented the last gasps of the righteous style of emergency services TV.

Brihard said:
I’d love to see us throw more bodies at bigger scale, longer term investigative projects instead of dealing with this stuff.

That would be great. As long as defunding does not mean layoffs ( or not replacing members lost through attrition ).






 

Jarnhamar

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mariomike said:
As U.S. cities look to defund their police departments, I believe you will find a common thread as to who they think will be picking up the slack.

Who they think will be picking up the slack is going to be different than who the president sends to pick up the slack.
 

daftandbarmy

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mariomike said:
As U.S. cities look to defund their police departments, I believe you will find a common thread as to who they think will be picking up the slack.

Under attack: After assaults on EMTs, the FDNY fights back with public service announcement

The FDNY is making the social media rounds with a public service announcement warning the public against attacks on paramedics and emergency medical technicians.

The PSA, posted on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram Thursday, comes in the wake of a brutal attack on an EMT last month, and includes tough talk on the penalty for punching a paramedic.

Wright, still handcuffed, then stomped on the 20-year-old EMT as he lay on the floor of the ambulance, sources with knowledge of the case said.

Cody suffered nerve damage and a loss of sensation in one of his arms, and will be out of work for several months, officials said.

Days later, another EMT, Danny Manning, 24, suffered a broken nose after he was slugged in the Bronx by a patient he and his partner were trying to transport.

“We started to lift him up,” Manning said. “My partner had him from under the arms and I was assisting by moving his legs. As we prepared to lift and he stretched out both arms. Then with a closed fist, out of nowhere, he hit me with a right hook, like a haymaker, right on the bridge of the nose. He got the most perfect spot, right at the bridge. He socked me pretty well and I heard a pop right after that.”


http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-emt-public-service-attack-20191108-32dkohxuqbdapov7gtpebr4ijm-story.html
 
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