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A Canadian Airborne EW Capabiilty? Split from The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement

SupersonicMax

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MilEME09 said:
What would in your experience be an over arching reason for this? Lack of proper training? Ego?

Technology.  More details of the battlefield was available live at the CAOC.  It became frustrating.  Americans would often be fed up and bring their aircraft to conduct our attacks because it took sometimes so long to get through the Canadian channels.
 

CBH99

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SupersonicMax said:
Technology.  More details of the battlefield was available live at the CAOC.  It became frustrating.  Americans would often be fed up and bring their aircraft to conduct our attacks because it took sometimes so long to get through the Canadian channels.


That's embarrassing for the COAC, that other countries would rather just 'get on with it' than wait for them to finally get around to it.

What, in your opinion, would be a good solution or two for us to employ?  (You are the only person I know that has direct and extremely relevant experience from the fighter jet world.  I imagine everybody here really likes hearing your input on such matters)
 

Eye In The Sky

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SupersonicMax said:
Technology.  More details of the battlefield was available live at the CAOC.  It became frustrating.  Americans would often be fed up and bring their aircraft to conduct our attacks because it took sometimes so long to get through the Canadian channels.

I'll also add 'accountability' to the equation.  Commanders (RCHs) authorizing effects wanted to 'see with their own eye'...

There was at times, complete unwillingness to trust the assessment of the tactical (ONSTA) "commander".  If you went "offline", you might as well of went OFFSTA... :2c:
 

SupersonicMax

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Eye In The Sky said:
I'll also add 'accountability' to the equation.  Commanders (RCHs) authorizing effects wanted to 'see with their own eye'...

There was at times, complete unwillingness to trust the assessment of the tactical (ONSTA) "commander".  If you went "offline", you might as well of went OFFSTA... :2c:

Nope.  We didn’t always need RCH approval to employ weapons in Libya.  We were given a sandbox to play into and we followed ROEs and guidelines. I employed several weapons (as a young Captain back then) without telling anybody until I checked out with the Airborne C2.  Pure and simple.  It should have been even easier in Iraq given we were working with JTACs for pretty most of our missions.

FWIw, it is called a RCH and not a GCH for a reason, although we changed it to TEA... 
 

kev994

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Flying the UAV in Afghanistan the video feed went everywhere, and everyone thought they saw something. Conversation often went something like this:
HQ: “Go back to that hot spot”
Me: “You mean the dog”
HQ: “ack”
Me: “Ack it’s a dog or ack you want me to go back to the dog?” (Ack was sometimes used as yes for some reason).
 

Eye In The Sky

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SupersonicMax said:

Nope to...accountability?  To rephrase it more specifically...accountability WRT acceptable levels of CD during IMPACT.  From the perspective of both the Coalition and GoI...I'm thinking of specific info briefed to LRP crews at the ISRD.  Trying to paraphrase that info effectively...appears I'm not succeeding.

We didn’t always need RCH approval to employ weapons in Libya.  We were given a sandbox to play into and we followed ROEs and guidelines. I employed several weapons (as a young Captain back then) without telling anybody until I checked out with the Airborne C2.  Pure and simple.  It should have been even easier in Iraq given we were working with JTACs for pretty most of our missions.

That supports my point, actually (maybe I worded that point poorly...). 

At the end of my 3rd time thru, we were DS to the ITCs (ISR Tactical Coordinators)...just seemed like another 'layer' to a wheel that wasn't well-rounded.  :dunno:  Went OFFSTA more than once during IMPACT with solid targets left untouched (e.g. - MBTs).  The "one hand behind your back" stuff on OIR was...baffling and frustrating. 
 

Eye In The Sky

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kev994 said:
Flying the UAV in Afghanistan the video feed went everywhere, and everyone thought they saw something. Conversation often went something like this:
HQ: “Go back to that hot spot”
Me: “You mean the dog”
HQ: “ack”
Me: “Ack it’s a dog or ack you want me to go back to the dog?” (Ack was sometimes used as yes for some reason).

We called it The Long Screwdriver.  Maybe a thread split from the EW specific topic?
 

AirDet

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While the Growler is an impressive piece of kit, we would need to train up yet more fast jet pilots and EWOs. Essentially we'd have to stand up a new capability, or at least one that's very different than what we currently have at 414 Sqn.
402 is where our ACSOs are trained and while they offer basic EW they wouldn't be able to train to the Growler standard without Growlers and a complete revamp.
 

AirDet

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This entire thread has really been rendered useless with the anouncement that Boeing is out of the competition.
 

MilEME09

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This entire thread has really been rendered useless with the anouncement that Boeing is out of the competition.
Not necessarily, Saab says it's working on a WW Gripen, if we end up buying the Gripen, an EW version may be in the cards.
 

Good2Golf

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This entire thread has really been rendered useless with the anouncement that Boeing is out of the competition.
I wouldn't rule out either the Saab EW capability, more the EW capability of the F-35's AN/APG-81 AESA radar/jammer and AN/ASQ-239 EW management system (and that doesn't include the OE/IR-based DAS and EOTS). Much will be automated or integrated into pilot-managed activity, so the classic "EWO in the back" (like in the Growler now) may not be how EW is done in the future.
 

dimsum

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so the classic "EWO in the back" (like in the Growler now) may not be how EW is done in the future.
Another Nav role replaced by technology.

Plotting The Simpsons GIF
 

Good2Golf

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On the other hand, a single seater without an EWO means no in-person adult supervision for the pilot...
There, problem fixed...adult supervision via data-link...real-time from HQ... (y)
 
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