7 injured, 1 killed at Ft Bragg

[jeffb]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/22/us/fort-bragg-training-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

RIP.

Paratrooper dies during training at Fort Bragg
By Susanna Capelouto and Ben Brumfield, CNN
updated 8:57 PM EST, Sat February 22, 2014


(CNN) -- A 22-year-old paratrooper died during a live-fire training exercise at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, on Friday, according to the 82nd Airborne Division.

Pfc. James Groth, of Washington state, was a cannon crew member taking part in the exercise using artillery and live ammunition, said public information officer Sgt. First Class Teresa Coble.

Groth was pronounced dead on arrival at Womack Army Medical Center.

The incident involved a towed M777 howitzer, according to the Army.

 

[jollyjacktar]

  RIP

 

[tomahawk6]

The FO has a bit more to the story.

http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/article_03d8beba-01a9-5b1e-9a45-0579a0b10a61.html

 

[Petard]

Hopefully there'll be more info out on the cause
There is the second incident I'm aware of where something catastrophic happened with a M777 at the gun platform. The previous one happened in 2008, with a premature at muzzle, but very little info came out from the investigation; luckily the gun det only had a a few injured that time, but sadly they were not so fortunate with this one

Fair winds, and soft landings Pte Groth
RIP to a fellow Gunner, and jumper

 

[Old Sweat]

Flashback time to 17 May 1963. I was a 2lt and CPO of C Bty in Gagetown. We were deployed in Gun Area 4 just south of Shirley Road shooting into Lawfield Impact Area for OP officer training when at about 1445 F Tp had a premature. The 105mm HE detonated about 15m out of the muzzle of the C1, wounding seven troops. The No 1, Sgt Marsh Brackett, dropped to the kneeling position when he ordered fire and a splinter tore through the top of his cap, peaked, winter. If he had been standing, it would have taken him in the chest, probably with fatal results.

As you can imagine, the events are still fresh in my mind, as is the subsequent investigation which the Area ATO and I did. The ATO, who knew way more about it than did I, actually figured it out as being caused by the delay pellet in the fuze fragmenting and setting off the explosive train. The booster in use armed at .05 second which put the round just under 15m from the gun. Despite this, the powers at be refused to accept this as a real threat. Over the next few months the artillery had several more prematures, but it was not until a recruit in the RCA Depot was killed that the ammunition was frozen.

If it was a premature, I can imagine the scene and the subsequent events. Bad, bad scene and condolences to the family and friends.

 

[FJAG]

Flashback time to 17 May 1963. ...  The 105mm HE detonated about 15m out of the muzzle of the C1, ...being caused by the delay pellet in the fuze fragmenting and setting off the explosive train. The booster in use armed at .05 second which put the round just under 15m from the gun. Despite this, the powers at be refused to accept this as a real threat. Over the next few months the artillery had several more prematures, but it was not until a recruit in the RCA Depot was killed that the ammunition was frozen.

That raised a couple of interesting questions in my mind.

I joined in late 1965 and had thought that throughout my career that the point detonating fuze assembly that we used was the Fuze PD M557. That used the M125A1 booster assembly which used a centrifugal detent and gear train configuration to provide an arming delay. The literature described the delay as appx 200 feet depending on weapon and charge fired.

In looking through some old literature on line I note though that the standard for this fuze is dated 1967. Since the arming delay is part of the booster assembly I presume that there may have been an original M125 booster (as opposed to the M125A1) had a different configuration.

Any recollection Old Sweat as to whether the 1963 fuze was an M557 and when the configuration changes to the longer arming delay came about. (I recall that the delay element had a .05 sec delay after impact but if the booster arming delay was also .05 seconds then [with a muzzle velocity of up to appx 1,500 ft per sec] then arming occurred at 75 feet with the fastest charge and even closer with the slower ones) If it was .05 sec arming originally then that strikes me as cutting it to darn close even with the fastest charge and even considering the rounds fragmentation pattern.

???

:cheers:

 

[Old Sweat]

The fuze we used at the time was the M51A5 with a M27 booster. Unlike the M125 type which I think had a little clockwork mechanism, it operated by set back freeing a pin and then centrifugal force rotated a cam to line up the flash channel.

We were firing high angle elevation 863 Charge Four. (Funny how those things stick in the mind.) The ATO and I stuck straws and twigs into the splinter holes in the ammunition boxes and worked out the position of the burst and thus the distance from the muzzle. We then used the MV from the gun history book to calculate the time of flight. The two calculations matched and produced a time of flight of .05 seconds, the same as the delay function.

 

[tomahawk6]

In the 2011 incident involving Marines performing an artillery live fire,the round exploded in the barrel.The cause has not been made public.

http://www.stripes.com/news/army/soldier-killed-7-hurt-in-training-exercise-on-fort-bragg-1.269333

In March 2011, several hundred members of the 2nd Battalion of the 10th Marine Regiment were at Bragg for annual artillery training during which a group was firing a similar weapon, an M777A2 lightweight howitzer, when a 155-mm round apparently exploded in the barrel.

Eight Marines and two Navy personnel were injured in that blast. A Marine spokesman at the time said most of the injuries were shrapnel wounds and lacerations. The Marines temporarily halted all live-firing following the incident. The Defense Department did not announce the findings of an investigation into whether the Marines had followed proper procedures, whether there was a problem with the round or if the weapon had malfunctioned.

 

[FJAG]

... The ATO and I stuck straws and twigs into the splinter holes in the ammunition boxes and worked out the position of the burst and thus the distance from the muzzle. We then used the MV from the gun history book to calculate the time of flight ...

CSI 101 - that kind of ingenuity can lead to someone becoming a lawyer.

;D

:cheers:

 

[Petard]

I'd thought the earlier M777 premature incident was in 2008, but ack, it was in 2011.
I must've mixed it up with one I helped investigate in 2008, when a gun on Ops fired with an unlocked breech block, resulting in an injured soldier (burns).  A rep from DAEME and I discovered you could actually prime the gun with an unlocked breech, but couldn't say which may of caused the accident.
One way is if you had a large enough hand, and grabbed the mechanism forcefully, pushing a safety detente out of the way
Also possible if that same detente had been assembled wrong (a spring could be put on the wrong way), even then you'd have to really crank the primer feed mech to make it go

Another unexplained problem was discovered while firing white bag, sometimes resulting in blast over pressure, and very visible as a huge fireball from the muzzle all the way back to the loading position. I don't know if the actual conditions that would cause this were ever completely defined, but it is why flash reducer was supposed to be added anytime white bag was used.

So there have been some other odd incidents with the gun previously
Still, there's nothing to say right now any of this has anything to do with the recent tragic events at Ft Bragg

 

[tomahawk6]

I was observing a 105mm gun during a live fire and a soldier was handed a round from the back of the ammo truck,which he dropped.Most everyone took off.The round luckily did not explode,but the base was partially indented.A simple handling error could have been catastrophic in my experience.In this incident it could be anything.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

CSI 101 - that kind of ingenuity can lead to someone becoming a lawyer.

;D

:cheers:

Not if they still have a soul.... >

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I was observing a 105mm gun during a live fire and a soldier was handed a round from the back of the ammo truck,which he dropped.Most everyone took off.The round luckily did not explode,but the base was partially indented.A simple handling error could have been catastrophic in my experience.In this incident it could be anything.

Dented the actual round?  that I would find hard to believe as the casing is quite thick. perhaps you meant the case or the tube container. We had a guy use an axe to cut the securing bands on the pallet, driving the blade through the box, tube and nicked the driving band!! 

 

[tomahawk6]

The bottom of the shell resembles a shotgun shell.That was partially dented by what I thought at the time was a rock.Anyway the act of dropping the round got the gun crew energized.It happened so fast that I didnt move. ;D

 

[Old Sweat]

Unless a rock or whatever actually hit the face of the primer which was about the size of a dime and indented, it may have been disturbing and a pain in the butt for the ammo techs to move, but the round was safe.

 

[tomahawk6]

If it had struck the rock full on would that have been enough to cause an explosion ?

 

[jeffb]

Maybe. Imagine something similar to a firing pin striking that small indented part. OS will correct me I'm sure if I'm wrong but I think the 105mm primer requires something like 7lbs of pressure. It's recessed somewhat so you would need an awfully pointy rock. Just to be clear though, the M777 uses a projectile, propellent and fuze combination that is loaded separately from one another, unlike the 105, so there is almost no way that dropping the projectile with the 155 could cause a detonation of anything baring some very weird circumstances. (The movie The Expendables notwithstanding).

Jeff Brownridge

 

[George Wallace]

If it had struck the rock full on would that have been enough to cause an explosion ?

Only if the Primer were struck hard enough.

 

[George Wallace]

The bottom of the shell resembles a shotgun shell.That was partially dented by what I thought at the time was a rock.Anyway the act of dropping the round got the gun crew energized.It happened so fast that I didnt move. ;D

Rather amazing how the mind works when you are in some dangerous situations and everything seems to suddenly go into "slow motion" and you just know what is going to happen next......

 

[Colin Parkinson]

As I recall the 105mm fuze had two centrifugal operated plates on springs that had to be spun to open the firing pin tube to allow the pin or detonation to pass through.