6 Jan 2020 U.S. Events (Split from A Deeply Fractured US)

[shawn5o]

And I have usually supported you in your scorn for Trump detractors and criticism.. I cannot any longer. This is a dark day in the U.S. and indeed in the world. It has been fomented by a sore-loser incumbent that has been pushed to the brink by four years of attacks. It does not allow this course of action, or excuse it. The U.S. is bigger than Donald Trump. He doesn't seem to get that.

Yes it is a dark day in the US. I don't support the violence but I support the protest.

But what the pro-trump guys did was fucked themselves (rightly so) by invading the House - no excuse for that.

And remember Hillary's words of advice to Biden; "Hillary Clinton says Biden should not concede the election 'under any circumstances'"

So why the difference?

 

[dimsum]

To OP: A bit tongue-in-cheek, but are we back to 2020?

 

[Remius]

Katstevens I can’t tell if you are defending this or not. But yes. This is a clear attack on democracy. All they’ve done is prove what people were warning about for months about a peaceful transition.

 

[Altair]

To OP: A bit tongue-in-cheek, but are we back to 2020?

No, this is a new bingo card. Lets see what we get for February.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I notice they broke a window in the door and then came in, appears they are not trashing the place , looting or burning it down. Frankly occupying the seat of government to protest suits me better than destroying the businesses of hard working people.

 

[Altair]

I notice they broke a window in the door and then came in, appears they are not trashing the place , looting or burning it down. Frankly occupying the seat of government to protest suits me better than destroying the businesses of hard working people.

Seems rather 3rd world to me.

 

[Remius]

I notice they broke a window in the door and then came in, appears they are not trashing the place , looting or burning it down. Frankly occupying the seat of government to protest suits me better than destroying the businesses of hard working people.

So this is all ok? Literally stopping their process of confirming the elected leader? This shouldn’t suit anyone who believes in the democratic process. The whataboutisms being spouted here is disappointing.

 

[Weinie]

Yes it is a dark day in the US. I don't support the violence but I support the protest.

But what the pro-trump guys did was fucked themselves (rightly so) by invading the House - no excuse for that.

And remember Hillary's words of advice to Biden; "Hillary Clinton says Biden should not concede the election 'under any circumstances'"

So why the difference?

Some context below:

Hillary Clinton says Biden shouldn't concede 'under any circumstances' (msn.com)

Misleading headline. Clinton actually said that Trump may hold an advantage on Electoral Day, but Biden shouldn't immediately concede, until legal options have been considered, and any recounts conducted. I am not a Democratic fan, but will also not twist their words.

For two months, I have watched with increasing dismay and finally disgust, as Trump and his team has careened from the obvious to the ridiculous. He lost. He has used dog whistles and an utterly unbecoming response to deny the obvious, and like many a fascist before him, used inflammatory language to incite his supporters. That manifested today. He needs to go, and he should face charges for what he has inflicted on the U.S.

 

[Altair]

According to CBS news, the woman shot in the neck at the capital building has died.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I notice they broke a window in the door and then came in, appears they are not trashing the place , looting or burning it down. Frankly occupying the seat of government to protest suits me better than destroying the businesses of hard working people.

Exactly what I was thinking.

I'm surprised at whats happening and how far they're taking it. More aggressive than I expected or gave them credit for.

Had the election went the other way I would have expected a hell of a lot worse, on a much larger scale. But maybe these guys and girls will close the gap.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I have no doubt that elements in the Dems are gleeful of this because they use it as an excuse to create more restrictions. What your seeing is that the governed do not believe the process is fair, you can argue back and forth, but that is what they believe and it was growing before Trump (or Sanders) came along. The GOP and Dems parties should take a good hard look at themselves because people are giving up on them and resorting to other means. Of course the politicians will not get it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"a protest that is interfering with the business of government."

The whole point of protest is to interfere with the business of whatever agency has the power to resolve the protestors' grievances, to pressure the agency to do so. Ultimately, protest against government usually boils down to some kind of unlawful disobedience.

The mitigation for groundless suspicions of voting fraud is strong voting control measures, set by those with authority to do so and not improperly limited, extended, countermanded, or re-interpreted by those without. This cake was baked well before the election.

 

[Altair]

And the acting secretary of defense confirms that it was the vice president who authorized the national guard to be called out, not the president.

I wont speculate on what that means, just very interesting.

 

[Altair]

"a protest that is interfering with the business of government."

The whole point of protest is to interfere with the business of whatever agency has the power to resolve the protestors' grievances, to pressure the agency to do so. Ultimately, protest against government usually boils down to some kind of unlawful disobedience.

The mitigation for groundless suspicions of voting fraud is strong voting control measures, set by those with authority to do so and not improperly limited, extended, countermanded, or re-interpreted by those without. This cake was baked well before the election.

There is pressure on members of government, and there is putting their physical safety in danger.

Fine with the former, the latter is a disgrace.

 

[Remius]

A protest that turned into an insurrection. Let’s call it for what it is.

 

[shawn5o]

So this is all ok? Literally stopping their process of confirming the elected leader? This shouldn’t suit anyone who believes in the democratic process. The whataboutisms being spouted here is disappointing.

I believe in the democratic process but this election was stolen

 

[Remius]

I believe in the democratic process but this election was stolen

I’m not even going to address that. I want this thread to stay open.

 

[Weinie]

"a protest that is interfering with the business of government."

The whole point of protest is to interfere with the business of whatever agency has the power to resolve the protestors' grievances, to pressure the agency to do so. Ultimately, protest against government usually boils down to some kind of unlawful disobedience.

The mitigation for groundless suspicions of voting fraud is strong voting control measures, set by those with authority to do so and not improperly limited, extended, countermanded, or re-interpreted by those without. This cake was baked well before the election.

Agreed. But your key word above is groundless. I was an advocate of what Trump was saying until late November. To continue your analogy, Trumps' actions since have poisoned the cake, and served it to a hungry constituency.

 

[Altair]

I’m not even going to address that. I want this thread to stay open.

Everyone has been pretty disciplined in not touching that with a ten foot pole.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Apparently someone has now been shot. I hope this can be calmed down.

Fox News reported a few minutes ago that this person, a women, has died. Has not been officially confirmed.