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58 dead 546 wounded / injured in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017

  • Thread starter jollyjacktar
  • Start date
Most mass shooting are a fairly recent phenomenon as well, problem there is that it might indicate that current social norms in education and parenting might be incorrect, which affects many rice bowels. That being said, nothing in this case appears to be similar to other instances. This one is closer to terrorism. Perhaps forfeiture of all the estate, wiping of name from records and scattering of ashes into toxic waste might be standard. Basically do everything to destroy their legacy and their previous existence. If people know that might be the end result, any glory or fame is lost helping to reduce that as a motivator.

 
 
Bird_Gunner45 said:
... The answer is invariably complex and would undoubtedly incorporate elements of mental health, gun control, and a general culture shift.
Well put.  This is why I agree with many of those who say, "the first week's not the best time to discuss solutions while the wound is still fresh."  A few say that as a cop-out, but figuring out real solutions needs a lot of issue wrestling based on the whole picture, not one huge, tragic incident.
Colin P said:
... problem there is that it might indicate that current social norms in education and parenting might be incorrect, which affects many rice bowels ...
Colin P said:
... forfeiture of all the estate, wiping of name from records and scattering of ashes into toxic waste might be standard. Basically do everything to destroy their legacy and their previous existence. If people know that might be the end result, any glory or fame is lost helping to reduce that as a motivator.
Methinks that if mental illness is involved, depending on the illness, even that won't make a difference ...
 
Mental illness does not mean people are unaware or incapable, it's a broad definition. Clearly he was a capable individual, unless something had change shortly before. His lack of empathy and likely sense of self importance might be reasons for this event. Clearly he put some planning into it. Which is why I would suggest a new definition of "Singular Terrorism" for someone not acting with a religious, cultural or politically motivated reason. 
 
Colin P said:
Mental illness does not mean people are unaware or incapable, it's a broad definition.
You're right - I should qualify re:  "depending on the mental illness involved".  I was just touching on the fact that if someone has their heart/mind pathologically set on destroying themselves/others, erasing their memory from the face of the earth still wouldn't stop them.
Colin P said:
Clearly he put some planning into it. Which is why I would suggest a new definition of "Singular Terrorism" for someone not acting with a religious, cultural or politically motivated reason.
I like that idea.
 
I know some people who were just coming back from Disney in California as this happened.

They said that every entrance way was guarded, and had them passing through bag checks etc. They felt totally safe in a crowded facility with tens of thousands of people.

Las Vegas is a similar 'theme park' and may - like other big venues - may need to move to that level of security one day.
 
>Which is why I would suggest a new definition of "Singular Terrorism" for someone not acting with a religious, cultural or politically motivated reason.

Sometimes it's easier to stick with what we already have: "run amok".
 
Why do we need a new term? Someone killing people without religious, political or racial agenda/views is a murderer. Are we just making up a term because we don't want to offend terrorists for being called terrorists? Or because unfortunately some people cannot delink the term terrorist for Islam?
 
Colin P said:
Mental illness does not mean people are unaware or incapable, it's a broad definition. Clearly he was a capable individual, unless something had change shortly before. His lack of empathy and likely sense of self importance might be reasons for this event. Clearly he put some planning into it. Which is why I would suggest a new definition of "Singular Terrorism" for someone not acting with a religious, cultural or politically motivated reason.

They have a term for it, and it is called being a Murdering Coward.

No need to reinvent the wheel for what things are called, and instead just call a spade a spade. Instead of calling him a shooter, the media should be calling him a murderer. Terrorist as far as I am concerned, is just more or less a buzzword which people often apply incorrectly because we have a irrational fear of the word, much as the term 'hate crime' is often passed around the same way. Those words are based around motives, which can be very hard to determine. Murder on the other hand is pretty straight cut, as you simply have to kill someone intentionally to be a murderer.
 
Brad Sallows said:
Sometimes it's easier to stick with what we already have: "run amok".

"Shooting spree" still works for me. That's the term I remember they used for the "Texas Tower Sniper".

 

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PuckChaser said:
Why do we need a new term? Someone killing people without religious, political or racial agenda/views is a murderer. Are we just making up a term because we don't want to offend terrorists for being called terrorists? Or because unfortunately some people cannot delink the term terrorist for Islam?

You're right that the defiintion of terrorism is, "The use of violence or the threat of violence, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political goals". That said, we can't say if he's a murderer or a terrorist until we know the motive, which seems to be the question of the hour. Clearly, something made him commit a premeditated attack on this concert. It'll be interesting to see what that something was.
 
milnews.ca said:
Well put.  This is why I agree with many of those who say, "the first week's not the best time to discuss solutions while the wound is still fresh."  A few say that as a cop-out, but figuring out real solutions needs a lot of issue wrestling based on the whole picture, not one huge, tragic incident.

I disagree with the needing to have a week to heal for one simple reason- Las Vegas is simply another horrific incident in the long line of horrific incidents which has plagued the US. Charleston, Sandy Hook, Orlando, San Bernardino, Binghamton immigrant shootings, Virginia Tech, Columbine and others are not "one offs" like was initially thought after the columbine shootings. They're a chronic blight on the US nation. US citizens should be incensed that this continues to happen and more incenced that their leaders of both political stripes refuse to confront the real issues as to "why" this continues to occur. No one should be "shocked" this happened based on the history of gun violence. No one should really even be surprised. That's not to lesson the horrific nature of the act by any means. It's just the reality that in 4-12 months there'll be another mass shooting followed by another one, etc, etc, etc, unless someone actually shows the morale courage and intestinal fortitude to confront the real problems.

The reality is that mass shootings are a reality in the US that largely dont exist elsewhere and certainly not to the extent that they do in the US. According to the FBI there have been an average of 16.4 mass shootings in the US each year from 2007 to present (mass shooting being defined as an event with more than 4 injuries related to the shooting). Politicians and leaders in the US need to say "enough is enough" and put real, non-partisan, thought, discussion, and blood into confronting the problem that faces them instead of doing the partisan grand standing that followed the other mass shootings listed above.  If the politicians need to be motivated to push for change they should watch "Newtown" on netflix about Sandy Hook.
 
Write-up on Stephen Paddock. It will be interesting to see as the authorities gather miore information on him.

Who is Stephen Paddock? Las Vegas gunman's father was 'psychopathic' bank robber on FBI most-wanted list

Before he opened fire late Sunday, the gunman Stephen Paddock lived a quiet life for years in a small town outside Las Vegas


Washington Post

October 2, 2017
8:08 PM EDT

Stephen Paddock – the man believed to have opened fire on a country music festival on the Las Vegas strip, killing at least 59 on Sunday – was the son of a “psychopathic” bank robber who was once on the FBI’s most wanted list.

Officials confirmed to the Washington Post on Monday that Paddock’s father was Benjamin Hoskins Paddock – a convicted armed bank robber and confidence man who escaped prison in 1969, when Stephen Paddock was 15 years old. His FBI wanted poster says he was “diagnosed as psychopathic” with “reportedly suicidal tendencies.” Despite his most-wanted status, the elder Paddock — who went by “Big Daddy,” “Chromedome” and “Old Baldy” — was on the lam for nearly a decade before he was arrested while running a bingo parlour in Oregon in 1978.

Benjamin Hoskins Paddock, the father of Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock, seen in an FBI mugshot. The elder Paddock was on the FBI most-wanted list after escaping prison in 1969.  According to relatives, Stephen Paddock appeared to have chosen a decidedly quieter life than his father, living in a retirement community outside Las Vegas — gambling, attending concerts and taking cruises. Public records show he was a licensed pilot, who owned two planes. And he had a hunting license from Alaska.

The 64-year-old disappeared for days to frequent casinos, neighbours said, where he often gambled in the tens of thousands of dollars. “My brother is not like you and me. He plays high-stakes video poker,” Paddock’s brother Eric said. “He sends me a text that says he won $250,000 at the casino.”

For several years, Paddock appeared to live in Mesquite, Texas. But property records show he chose to move to another town named Mesquite in Nevada, where he bought a home in 2013 and has been living there ever since.

“We have no idea how this happened,” Paddock’s brother Eric, who lives in Florida, told the Las Vegas Review-Journal. “It’s like an asteroid just fell on top of our family.”

“When you get a phonecall that says your brother just killed a bunch of people,” he told reporters gathered in his driveway, before breaking off, trying to hold back tears.

Eric told CNN that he last heard from his brother when Paddock checked in to see how their mother was doing in Florida after Hurricane Irma wiped out power in the area. After they spoke, Paddock sent his mother a new walker, “because she was having trouble walking,” Eric said.

“We’re f—d up. I mean, I’ve got a 90-year-old mother whose son just killed 50-plus people and now is dead,” he said. “He’s just a guy who played video poker and took cruises and ate burritos at Taco Bell. There’s no political affiliation that we know of. There’s no religious affiliation that we know of.”

Drapes billow out of broken windows at the Mandalay Bay resort and casino on Monday, on the Las Vegas Strip following a deadly shooting at a music festival. John Locher / Associated Press
Paddock’s family said there was nothing in his past that would suggest violence.

“We are in complete shock bewilderment and horror. We have absolutely no idea how in the world Steve did this. Absolutely no concept,” said one relative, who spoke anonymously to avoid hurting other relatives. “There was nothing secret or strange about him.”

For several years, the gunman lived with his girlfriend, Marilou Danley, in a retirement community in Reno, Nevada, neighbours said. They said they interacted with Danley but not with Paddock, whom they described as extremely standoffish. Danley told residents there that Paddock was a professional gambler, explaining their long absences from the neighbourhood.

Called Del Webb, the neighbourhood is a relatively new active-adult community of single-family homes with desert views and a clubhouse with a gym and pool.

Harold Allred, who lives up the street from the couple, said his wife often ran into Danley in exercise classes or social gatherings. Allred said he and his wife found Danley unremarkable, though perhaps a little odd, and didn’t know Paddock. “He was reclusive,” said Allred, 66. “We never met him.”

Paddock lived in a number of retirement communities. In addition to the Reno home, Paddock and Danley had another home in Mesquite, Nevada, said neighbours. In recent years, he had moved to Nevada from Melbourne, Florida. And he had previously lived in Texas and California, where he had married once and later divorced.

In Reno, Diane McKay lived next door to Paddock and Danley until July, when McKay moved to a different community, but she said she only ran into Danley occasionally when both women happened to be pulling weeds from their front yards. Danley wasn’t forthcoming about her life, and Paddock was aggressively unfriendly, McKay recalled. She only saw him in the mornings, when he went to the clubhouse to work out. Occasionally, he would open the garage door, revealing a large safe the size of a refrigerator. Other than that, the couple kept their blinds closed.

“He was weird. Kept to himself,” said McKay, 79, who described Paddock as small but in pretty good shape. “It was like living next to nothing. . . . You can at least be grumpy, something. He was just nothing, quiet. He never went out in the back and enjoyed the back yard, nature. They had a little back yard, 17 feet to the fence and hill. But the blinds were always closed.”

On Monday morning, police released a picture of Danley, saying they were searching for her as a person of interest. They later said they she was out of the country, and has been located and detained. Authorities called her a companion of Paddock.

Las Vegas police said authorities were in the process of searching Paddock’s home in Mesquite, Nevada, on Monday morning. Quinn Averett, a spokesman for Mesquite Police in Nevada said Paddock was unknown to local authorities in the city where he owns a home 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas. Mesquite police have no recorded interactions with Paddock. Las Vegas police said this about Paddock:

“We have no investigative information or background associated with this individual that is derogatory,” Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said. “The only thing we can tell is he received a citation several years ago, that citation was handled as a matter of normal practice in the court system.”

After the shooting, Paddock was found dead by officers on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino, Lombardo said during a news briefing. Authorities said he killed himself.

Police believe Paddock was a “lone wolf” attacker. Lombardo did not give further details, however, on Paddock’s background or possible motivation.

“We have no idea what his belief system was,” Lombardo said. “Right now, we believe he was the sole aggressor.”

The FBI said Paddock was not connected to an international terror group on Monday after the Islamic State claimed responsibility for the attack. But the group, which has repeatedly made false or exaggerated claims, gave no proof to its assertion that Paddock was “a soldier” who had converted to Islam months ago.

Recordings of the attack suggested that Paddock used an automatic weapon. Paddock, who arrived at the hotel on Thursday, was found with more than 10 rifles, Lombardo said. Relatives said they knew Paddock owned guns, but believed they were legal. When

“No, not an avid gun guy at all,” Paddock’s brother Eric told reporters. “The fact that he had those kind of weapons is, just – where the hell did he get automatic weapons? He has no military background or anything like that.

“Like I said, he’s a guy who lived in a house in Mesquite; drove down and gambled in Las Vegas. He did stuff, ate burritos.”

—With files from National Post staff

Article Link
 
CBS fires vice president who said Vegas victims didn't deserve sympathy because country music fans 'often are Republican'
Interesting...

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act...
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/10/02/top-cbs-lawyer-no-sympathy-for-vegas-vics-probably-republicans.html

CBS fires vice president who said Vegas victims didn't deserve sympathy because country music fans 'often are Republican'

CBS has parted ways with one of the company’s top lawyers after she said she was “not even sympathetic” to victims of the Las Vegas shooting because “country music fans often are Republican,” when discussing the mass shooting that unfolded in Las Vegas late Sunday night.

Monday night she issued a statement of apology.

Hayley Geftman-Gold, the network's now-former vice president and senior counsel, said, “Earlier today I posted an indefensible post in a Facebook discussion thread concerning the tragic Las Vegas shooting, a statement I sincerely regret. I am deeply sorry for diminishing the significance of every life affected by Stephen Paddock’s terrorism last night and for the pain my words have inflicted on the loved ones of the victims. My shameful comments do not reflect the beliefs of my former employer, colleagues, family, and friends. Nor do they reflect my actual beliefs — this senseless violence warrants the deepest empathy. I understand and accept all consequences that my words have incurred.”


A CBS spokeswoman told Fox News that Geftman-Gold, “who was with us for approximately one year, violated the standards of our company and is no longer an employee of CBS. Her views as expressed on social media are deeply unacceptable to all of us at CBS. Our hearts go out to the victims in Las Vegas and their families.”

Geftman-Gold took to Facebook after a gunman opened fire at the Route 91 Harvest Music Festival in Las Vegas, killing at least 59 people and sending more than 510 others to hospitals.

“If they wouldn’t do anything when children were murdered I have no hope that Repugs [sic] will ever do the right thing,” Geftman-Gold wrote in a now-deleted message that was first reported and captured by The Daily Caller.

Geftman-Gold continued: “I’m actually not even sympathetic bc [sic] country music fans often are Republican gun toters [sic].”

Geftman-Gold is presumably referring to Sandy Hook, which occurred in Newtown, Conn. back in 2012. A 20-year-old gunman, Adam Lanza, killed 20 children and six adults during the tragic event that sparked intense political debates regarding gun control.

Her attorney, Carrie A. Goldberg, responded: “In the last few hours my client, her family and friends have been bombarded by online death unimaginable in quantity and detail. We beg people to show love and support to survivors and loved ones — in Las Vegas and their own lives — instead of creating more violence.”

Geftman-Gold did not work directly with the network’s news division. According to her LinkedIn bio, Geftman-Gold worked at CBS since September 2016 and graduated from the prestigious Columbia University law school in 2000.

Brian Flood covers the media for Fox News.
 

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Cloud Cover said:
CBS fires vice president who said Vegas victims didn't deserve sympathy because country music fans 'often are Republican'

See Reply #20.
https://army.ca/forums/threads/126688/post-1505176.html#msg1505176
 
daftandbarmy said:
I know some people who were just coming back from Disney in California as this happened.

They said that every entrance way was guarded, and had them passing through bag checks etc. They felt totally safe in a crowded facility with tens of thousands of people.

Las Vegas is a similar 'theme park' and may - like other big venues - may need to move to that level of security one day.

I imagine similar precautions were taken at this venue.  Unfortunately, the shooter was outside the venue shooting in.
 
George Wallace said:
Unfortunately, the shooter was outside the venue shooting in.

Survivors of the massacre described it "like shooting fish in a barrel".
https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22las+vegas%22+%22fish+in+a+barrel%22&dcr=0&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A10%2F1%2F2017%2Ccd_max%3A&tbm=

NYPD Will Train Hotel Workers To Spot Weapons, Suspicious Behavior In Wake Of Las Vegas Shooting
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/10/04/nypd-hotel-training/

Unless you open all the guest's bags it may not work.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/the-gear-network/10-covert-tactical-gun-case-options/

The International Association of Firefighters says 15 off-duty Firefighters were shot in Las Vegas
http://www.firehouse.com/news/12372281/iaff-says-15-off-duty-firefighters-shot-in-las-vegas-mandalay-bay-shooting-firefighter-news

Number of people living in Nevada (2016): 2,940,058 ( Does not include visitors. )
Number of Level 1 Trauma Centers in Nevada: 1
https://khn.org/news/las-vegas-tragedy-prompts-examination-of-hospitals-capacity-to-treat-victims/

Washington DC's plan to handle a major emergency following Las Vegas shooting.
http://wjla.com/news/local/dcs-plan-to-handle-a-major-emergency-following-las-vegas-shooting

Fate Of Vegas Shooter's Sniper's 'Nest': "The Room Disappears"
 
Accounts by British troopers of trying to help the wounded as bullets flew. I hope these soldiers get some award for their heroism under fire.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/6-british-soldiers-jumped-in-to-help-strip-shooting-victims-on-sunday/

British Troopers Ross Woodward, Chris May and Stuart Finlay planned on a night of drinking and gambling in Las Vegas to blow off some steam following six weeks of rigorous training alongside their American counterparts at Fort Irwin, California.
The trio — all members of the 1st The Queen’s Dragoon Guards — paused for a moment when they heard the sound of gunfire echoing down the Strip on Sunday.
 
From what I have read, 16 Rescue Task Forces were deployed. Each RTF consisted of four to six police officers, who created a perimeter around three paramedics. The paramedics treated and transported the wounded to ambulances under the blanket of safety those police officers provided, moving in unison with police from patient to patient.

Complicating matters was people with gunshot wounds showing up at various hotels. The calls were dispatched as a report of a shooter at each hotel. The calls initially generated more than 30 different possible shootings along the Las Vegas strip.

With people scattering into hotels, to the airport tarmac, and into neighbourhoods, the response area was stretched to about a mile.

Some trampling injuries resulted in the stampede.

In some cases, uninjured people piled on top of the wounded who had been loaded into pick-up trucks.
In one case, ten people ( some wounded ) were crammed into a compact car.

RTF training has been focused on active shooters at ground level, not firing from an elevated position.

In the city where I live, the optimal Rescue Task Force, with police protection, to active shooter incidents is one paramedic supervisor, two paramedics and four firefighters.

 
CNN demonstrates how a bump stock works. (Apparently a bunch of us here own a bump stock too?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsMk9ZGseUY

This has to be a hoax. CNN can't be this F-ed up. But if not bravo to them for the addition of an M203, silencer and ACOG. They probably couldn't figure out how to add a bayonet to it.
 
Jarnhamar said:
CNN demonstrates how a bump stock works. (Apparently a bunch of us here own a bump stock too?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsMk9ZGseUY

This has to be a hoax. CNN can't be this F-ed up. But if not bravo to them for the addition of an M203, silencer and ACOG. They probably couldn't figure out how to add a bayonet to it.

The follow on video after that linked video was, however, very informative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6oaRAgdslE
 
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