359 - Of AUKUS, 5Is and Quads

[Kirkhill]

Shades of G7/G20

‘Nine Eyes’? Bill Would Look at Adding Four Countries to Intel-Sharing Pact

Lawmaker says current ‘Anglophile view’ is insufficient against China.

www.defenseone.com

I saw the article and immediately started to wonder how they were going to maintain a secure environment if they added Japan, Korea, India and Germany to ABCANZUS.

But then it dawned on me that ABCANZUS has had to manage NZ by focusing on ABCA. It has had to manage Canada by focusing on AUKUS.

Neither New Zealand nor Canada have been without security risks.

But then neither have Australia or Britain .

Nor, for that matter, has the US.

That is the problem with democracy. Those election thingamajigs.

So adding Japan, Korea, India and the EU (sorry - Germany - same thing) is probably not unmanageable.

 

[Altair]

I remember watching an episode of peppa pig with my kid and everyone was getting into the secret club. At what point is a secret club secret if everyone is in it?

Japan, sure.

Korea, how much is the North snooping on the South? I wouldn't.

India is a coin flip for me.

EU? Hell no. 27 countries, with many likely chock full of Russian intelligence and countries in Eastern Europe who are downright antagonistic with Brussels? Hell no.

 

[Kirkhill]

I remember watching an episode of peppa pig with my kid and everyone was getting into the secret club. At what point is a secret club secret if everyone is in it?

Japan, sure.

Korea, how much is the North snooping on the South? I wouldn't.

India is a coin flip for me.

EU? Hell no. 27 countries, with many likely chock full of Russian intelligence and countries in Eastern Europe who are downright antagonistic with Brussels? Hell no.

My concern, as a Canadian, is that I-9 would only serve to mask AUKUS or I-3.

The other six would be treated as the 2nd Div to which Canada and New Zealand would be relegated.

And I am with you on Germany and the EU. I would sooner trust India, Japan and Korea than Germany and the EU.

Germany and the EU make political sense but in no way do they make military sense.

 

[Dale Denton]

I would hope a less pacifist gov't was in power but I digress.

Perhaps a 3 Eyes-Light pact, between Canada, NZ, and perhaps the Netherlands and Ireland even.

Built as a 'middle power' group that would be less militarily superior but perhaps share commonalities and pool recourses together on the cheap. A 'less heavy' response but still a AUKUS partner group. Perhaps even be an AUKUS power group for the middle powers in a new more inclusive AUKUS tiered partner offshoot. AUKUS assistance/support group.

Gives us a chance to build with some close friends (NZ and Netherlands) across two oceans.

Help Ireland with some lacking defence capability gaps they have (radars, leases for C-130s or CF-18s, LAV 6.0s). They are a wealthy nation questioning their 'neutrality' policy, we could work to shift them towards the west without help or over-reliance on the UK. Long-term try to shift them into NATO. Teach them SAR, ASW, group buy P8s with them. Facilitate Rheinmetalls radars we just bought for thier testing.

We get to learn littoral and amphib work from Netherlands Marine Corps, maybe buy a few Karel Doormans from them built here. Dutch get to lease space on a NZ base to train together in the pacific.

NZ probably wants the same as us, stay friends with our stronger western powers while not taking too hard a stance on China.

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