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3 shot dead at Pensacola naval base

Remius

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https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/pensacola-naval-base-shooter/index.html

What the hell is happening at US Naval bases?...first the Pearl Harbour incident now this.
 

tomahawk6

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Shooter was a Saudi aviation student. Investigation is ongoing.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/naval-air-station-pensacola-active-shooter-reported-shelter-in-place-issued
 

tomahawk6

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There are some opposed to these training programs but they don't realize the value in conducting training of allied personnel. Proper vetting is important but as we ourselves have found out there is no single way to prevent entirely these events. I understand there might be as many as 35 Saudis in training at this training base with no issues.
 

tomahawk6

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The FBI arrested 6 Saudis near NAS Pensacola. Not much has been released if they were military living off base or if they were employed elsewhere. In time more info will be released. No need to speculate.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/saudis-arrested-questioning-pensacola-shooting
 

brihard

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tomahawk6 said:
The FBI arrested 6 Saudis near NAS Pensacola. Not much has been released if they were military living off base or if they were employed elsewhere. In time more info will be released. No need to speculate.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/saudis-arrested-questioning-pensacola-shooting

Interesting. To be able to detain (they weren't arrested) them for questioning they probably need to have at least some sort of grounds- police don't get to just make you talk to them.  Granted, the foreign national status of the detained Saudis likely gives them a bit more legal power to act. They will probably have already accessed some of the contents of the shooter's phone and computer, they might have taken some quick action based off messages between the shooter and other individuals, but I'm speculating.

I'm curious whether this will turn out to be a case of radicalization, or maybe a candidate who was on the fast path to washing out and couldn't deal with it?
 

daftandbarmy

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Brihard said:
I'm curious whether this will turn out to be a case of radicalization, or maybe a candidate who was on the fast path to washing out and couldn't deal with it?

I'm assuming the former because, well, you know, the Saudis pay well for training their people :)
 

Jarnhamar

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Remius said:
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/pensacola-naval-base-shooter/index.html

What the hell is happening at US Naval bases?...first the Pearl Harbour incident now this.

That's a Monday in Chicago.
 

Blackadder1916

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Brihard said:
Interesting. To be able to detain (they weren't arrested) them for questioning they probably need to have at least some sort of grounds- police don't get to just make you talk to them.  Granted, the foreign national status of the detained Saudis likely gives them a bit more legal power to act. They will probably have already accessed some of the contents of the shooter's phone and computer, they might have taken some quick action based off messages between the shooter and other individuals, but I'm speculating.

I'm curious whether this will turn out to be a case of radicalization, or maybe a candidate who was on the fast path to washing out and couldn't deal with it?

This will be a matter that authorities (and the public, and the chattering class) will drill down deep.  Based on experience (not recent and nowhere as serious or controversial) it seemed to me that the logical move would be to immediately speak to the people with whom he would have the most (and maybe only) social interaction - the other Saudis.  It would not even be done to see if there were other "radicals" in the group; just as family and friends of an American mass murderer (that's become too familiar a phrase) would be questioned to determine "why", it should be no different in this case.

All these International Military Students (IMS) are there on invitational travel orders (ITO).  While there are some slight differences as to how US Immigration considers their presence in the US, they do not have any special status regarding legal jurisdiction nor any sort of immunity and "may not" (usually not) be subject to the UCMJ (again, in my experience).

For info - US Navy International Military Student Officer Guide

My experience - Thirty years ago (this month), I went to Fort Sam Houston as an IMS attending the AMEDD OAC.  There were a variety of other foreigners attending courses; there were four on my course (Jordanian, Malaysian, El Salvadorian and me), elsewhere there were four or five Filipinos, a few Thais, three Taiwanese, a few guys from African countries (including one from Somalia before his country went to crap more than it already was), an MO from Belize (who knew the Belizean who had been in my BOTC platoon) and several other officers and NCOs who came and went mostly anonymously in the six months that I was there.  Mostly the IMS kept to themselves and even among themselves generally socialized by nationality.  Some of this segregation was a result of the way the IMS Office organized "cultural activities" as a way of keeping the foreigners (who were sometimes not as financially well heeled as their American colleagues) occupied as well as showcasing the wonderfulness of America.  Personally, I found some of their activities patronizing and only participated when it was especially interesting (they reflected my uneven participation in my evaluation).  Thus my assumption that this Saudi officer's closest contacts would be any other Saudis in training at Pensacola.

As has been mentioned in some of the news reports and has probably been discussed by Canadian soldiers who've experienced foreign students on Canadian courses, failing an international student is a rare action even when they appear to not get close to meeting standard (though from my BOTC platoon, they failed two foreigners, the Belize OCdt I mentioned earlier and a Jamaican - both were later sent by their countries to Sandhurst who passed them).  It is US DOD policy (and probably Canada's) that such action would be a last resort and any recordkeeping of any adverse action would be transmitted to the student's home country only after evaluating not only the student's performance but also the repercussions to the student if his government were to be made aware.  When I was at Fort Sam, one of the other IMS (not on my course) got into a little bit of bother in downtown San Antonio and was questioned by the local police who did not detain him after questioning.  However, this freaked out this officer so much that he was genuinely afraid that he would be returned to his home country in disgrace and there his punishment could be very severe.  So he went AWOL.  As the IMSO was trying to find him, all the other IMS were asked if they had any knowledge of his whereabouts.  He returned a few days later on his own accord; as far as I'm aware, he completed his course and returned to his country without any mention of the incident in his evaluation.
 

Retired AF Guy

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From the Daily Mail:

Official: Base shooter watched shooting videos before attack


PENSACOLA, Fla. (AP) — The Saudi student who fatally shot three people at a U.S. naval base in Florida hosted a dinner party earlier in the week where he and three others watched videos of mass shootings, a U.S. official told The Associated Press on Saturday.

Officials investigating the deadly attack were working Saturday to determine whether it was motivated by terrorism, while President Donald Trump indicated he would review policies governing foreign military training in the United States.

Family members on Saturday identified one of the victims as a 23-year-old recent graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy who alerted first responders to where the shooter was even after he had been shot several times.

“Joshua Kaleb Watson saved countless lives today with his own," Adam Watson wrote on Facebook. “He died a hero and we are beyond proud but there is a hole in our hearts that can never be filled." The shooter opened fire inside a classroom at Naval Air Station Pensacola on Friday, killing three people and wounding two sheriff's deputies, one in the arm and one in the knee, before one of the deputies killed him. Eight others were also hurt. Both deputies were expected to survive.

The official who spoke Saturday said one of the three students who attended the dinner party hosted by the attacker recorded video outside the classroom building while the shooting was taking place. Two other Saudi students watched from a car, the official said.

Ten Saudi students were being held on the base Saturday while several others were unaccounted for, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity after being briefed by federal authorities. A U.S. official on Friday identified the shooter as Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani. The official wasn’t authorized to discuss the matter publicly and spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity. The official also said the FBI was examining social media posts and investigating whether he acted alone or was connected to any broader group.

Two U.S. officials identified the student as a second lieutenant in the Saudi Air Force, and said Friday that authorities were investigating whether the attack was terrorism-related. They spoke on condition of anonymity to disclose information that had not yet been made public.

President Trump declined to say whether the shooting was terrorism-related. The president tweeted his condolences to the families of the victims on Friday and noted that Saudi King Salman had reassured him in a telephone call that the shooter “in no way shape or form represents the feelings of the Saudi people."

But in comments echoing those made earlier by Defense Secretary Mark Esper, Trump said Saturday that he would review policies governing foreign military training in the U.S. The U.S. has long had a robust training program for Saudis, providing assistance in the U.S. and in the kingdom. Currently, more than 850 Saudis are in the United States for various training activities. They are among more than 5,000 foreign students from 153 countries in the U.S. going through military training.

“This has been done for many decades,” Trump said. “I guess we're going to have to look into the whole procedure. We'll start that immediately." The shooting has shined a spotlight on the sometimes rocky relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia.

The kingdom is still trying to recover from the killing last year of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul. Saudi intelligence officials and a forensic doctor killed and dismembered Khashoggi on Oct. 2, 2018, just as his fiancée waited outside the diplomatic mission.

Naval Air Station Pensacola is one of the Navy's most historic and storied bases. It sprawls along the waterfront southwest of the city's downtown and dominates the economy of the surrounding area. Part of the base resembles a college campus, with buildings where, in addition to foreign students, 60,000 members of the U.S. Navy, Marines, Air Force and Coast Guard train each year in multiple fields of aviation.

Kinsella said the base would remain closed until further notice. Residents of Pensacola mourned the attacks and offered their condolences to the affected members of the community. Joshua Watson was being praised as a hero by his family.

Adam Watson said his little brother was able to make it outside the classroom building to tell authorities where the shooter was after being shot “multiple" times. “Those details were invaluable," he wrote on his Facebook page.

Watson's father, Benjamin Watson, was quoted by the Pensacola News Journal as saying that his son was a recent graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy who dreamed of becoming a Navy pilot. He said he had reported to Pensacola two weeks ago to begin flight training. “He died serving his country,” Benjamin Watson said.

The shooting is the second at a U.S. naval base in one week. A sailor whose submarine was docked at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, opened fire on three civilian employees Wednesday, killing two before taking his own life.

-— Associated Press reporters Lolita Baldor, Ben Fox, Mike Balsamo and in Washington; Jon Gambrell in Dubai; Tamara Lush in Tampa, Florida; and Freida Frisaro in Miami contributed to this report.

Link
 

tomahawk6

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An update of sorts.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/naval-academy-grad-shot-5-times-hero

 

tomahawk6

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The dead include an Ensign and 2 enlisted sailors. Ensign Watson seemed to have a bright future.He was Captain of the Annapolis rifle team. Although shot 5 times was able to exit the building to give first responders critical info about the location of the shooter and an ID.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/pensacola-pearl-harbor-shootings-northern-command-military-security-checks
 

FSTO

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Is there any upside to being associated in any way with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?
 

tomahawk6

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FSTO said:
Is there any upside to being associated in any way with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?

Oil and location.
There is a BOLO out for several students that might be part of this cell. Investigators found the shooter had traveled to NYC. NORTHCOM is requiring tightened security at bases but I doubt that it would have stopped a blue on blue event.
 

FSTO

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tomahawk6 said:
Oil and location.

But the US is self sufficient in oil.

I firmly believe that the west should totally pull out of the middle east. Yes I know the Chinese and Russia would fill the void. But let them expend the blood and treasure of their own in that region which undoubtedly would happen. The ME has been the graveyard of many an empire. 
 

tomahawk6

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But the US has allies who need Saudi oil.

https://www.pnj.com/story/news/2019/12/07/nas-pensacola-shooting-authorities-know-how-shooter-obtained-gun/4369807002/
 

tomahawk6

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I guess all students have been accounted for and a Saudi commander has ordered their students to be at one location.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nas-pensacola-shooting-saudi-serviceman-one-gunman-fbi-terrorism
 
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