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220 Reservists Needed for TF 03-06

Haggis said:
Bear, I'm inclined to agree with you.  D&S (or Force Protection) is IMO a viable option for PRes troops. 
But knowing you're going to spend 6 months straight guarding a gate, I doubt the Res will be able to find enough troops who actually WANT to fill a task like that. Viable or not, The Res has the choice whether or not to go, and if they aren't able to do even a modicum of their job (infantry, armour, or whatever), I seriously doubt they will be able to fill the posns. I understand that going over as a formed unit is not viable for Afghanistan, so why not go back to the previous incarnations of individual augmentees with every Pl rotating around D&S duties?

Haggis said:
three CBGs cannot reach a common standard training their platoons independently.

Couldn't this be resolved by the presence of a few Reg Inf NCOs (who, to the best of my knowledge are already filling CBG posns) supervising this training and enforcing some kind of national standard - one which is set by the Regs? Couldn't the individual standards cells fill this role as well?

George - excellent point about the "train to need". Not to mention, aren't there g-wagons in operation in Afghanistan? Surely the Dvr crse for that is significantly shorter and easier to run, both locally and in pre-training. If G-wagons are being used for local patrols (and if this is not the case, please correct me), surely the Res could backfill these posns, leaving the Regs free to take the LAV crses.

Just throwing some stuff out there. I just foresee a lot of reservists coming back from a full tour sitting on a gate and never being willing to go anywhere again.
 
combat_medic said:
I doubt the Res will be able to find enough troops who actually WANT to fill a task like that.
They have for the last 2 rotos.

combat_medic said:
Couldn't this be resolved by the presence of a few Reg Inf NCOs (who, to the best of my knowledge are already filling CBG posns) supervising this training and enforcing some kind of national standard - one which is set by the Regs? Couldn't the individual standards cells fill this role as well?

Quite true.  That happened on Roto 12 where C Coy 2VP trained and validated the CRC in WarFighter.

As I said in an earlier post, Roto 13 was the victim of competing priorities with Op ATHENA Roto 0.  Therefore they only had mentors for one week during their live fire validation.  Despite that, they passed and deployed.  They had more than enough WF ability to sum up the locals if things got rough in Bihac or VK...but not in Kandahar.

combat_medic said:
I just foresee a lot of reservists coming back from a full tour sitting on a gate and never being willing to go anywhere again.

As Teddy Ruxpin said, the D&S/FP troops are rotated.  A Sgt from my Regiment did almost 3 full months at Julien on Roto 3 after starting his tour at Mirage.  Gate is gate, yes, but  change is as good as a rest.
 
But knowing you're going to spend 6 months straight guarding a gate, I doubt the Res will be able to find enough troops who actually WANT to fill a task like that. Viable or not, The Res has the choice whether or not to go, and if they aren't able to do even a modicum of their job (infantry, armour, or whatever), I seriously doubt they will be able to fill the posns. I understand that going over as a formed unit is not viable for Afghanistan, so why not go back to the previous incarnations of individual augmentees with every Pl rotating around D&S duties?

It's already being done. Also, one of the recurring trends  in these threads is that there's no requirement for individual reserve augmentees. there's a number of reg cpls on this very forum who whine inccesantly because they "don't get to go on tours while reservists do".  If there were so many reg NCOs and officers lying around, there's more than enough reg Ptes and Cpls, or that's what they say, anyway.

Besides, I imagine being "on the gate" in Afghanistan is a bit more interesting than doing *anything* in  Bosnia. I'd do it in a heartbeat. 
 
Britney Spears said:
....there's no requirement for individual reserve augmentees.

For now.  Since we are talking about 03-06 here and neither 01-06 nor as far as I know 02-06 have stood to yet, I think it may be too early to count the soldiers before they hatch.

When we had two CANBATs in the Balkans there was plenty of need for reserve augmentees, and once SFOR rolled out the need diminished until most of our soldiers had three or four tours and were near able to vote.

SFOR is not ISAF nor is it the PRT.  Just as it was folly to draw many parallels between Cypruis and UNPROFOR, it would equally foolish to compare FY with Afganistan.  When Cyprus closed in '93 there had been a couple of PRes sub and sub-sub units, but no one sugested that would be a good idea in rotos 0-4 in Croatia.  Afganistan is probably farther along the PRes road with D&S Pl's than any other mission to date.  For those who want to pound sand and kick doors there are ways of getting there sooner, but if you want to do it in your tam-o-shanterns it may be a few years yet.
 
Britney Spears said:
.... one of the recurring trends   in these threads is that there's no requirement for individual reserve augmentees. there's a number of reg cpls on this very forum who whine inccesantly because they "don't get to go on tours while reservists do".  

Who can blame them?  Hopefully that's why the chose the Reg F as a career.

There are many reasons why an otherwise willing member doesn't get to go on every tour they want to: a lingering medical problem, family difficulties, career progression, an upcoming priority posting or maybe they haven't been back long enough from the last go around.  These and any other myriad of things can DAG someone RED for this tour, whether they want to go or not. (I have a friend who came back from a tour and immediately tried to get on the next one so he wouldn't have to deal with a serious family illness at home.)  I say kudos to them for wanting to go but sometimes the Army says "take a break, soldier" and it's for your own good.

Britney Spears said:
Besides, I imagine being "on the gate" in Afghanistan is a bit more interesting than doing *anything* in   Bosnia.

Remember when 10-12 years ago Bosnia was "where it's at"?  It's quiet now but it had a Roto 0 a couple of times.  During the past three years it was a great place for Reserve sub-units to cut their teeth and gain operational experience at levels both unheard of and unthinkable just a few years prior.

I doubt Afghanistan will be as forcibly calmed down as Bosnia by the time it reaches "mature theatre" status and "Ghan fatigue" sets in.  As in Bosnia, the Reg F will eventually have to draw down and leave Afghanistan partly to the Reserves while they move on to the next Roto 0 hot spot.  By then sufficient mumbers of Reservists will have gained the operational experience to function effectively and safely in this AO.
 
There are many reasons why an otherwise willing member doesn't get to go on every tour they want to: a lingering medical problem, family difficulties, career progression, an upcoming priority posting or maybe they haven't been back long enough from the last go around.  These and any other myriad of things can DAG someone RED for this tour, whether they want to go or not. (I have a friend who came back from a tour and immediately tried to get on the next one so he wouldn't have to deal with a serious family illness at home.)  I say kudos to them for wanting to go but sometimes the Army says "take a break, soldier" and it's for your own good.

Which sort of ties in to the demographic end of things, the tired guys are most often the senior NCOs and officers who have families, not so much the 18 yr old ptes.

Remember when 10-12 years ago Bosnia was "where it's at"?

Well, I DID pay more attention to it at the time than most other 10 year olds, so......yes, of course I remember. :)

I doubt Afghanistan will be as forcibly calmed down as Bosnia by the time it reaches "mature theatre" status and "Ghan fatigue" sets in.  As in Bosnia, the Reg F will eventually have to draw down and leave Afghanistan partly to the Reserves while they move on to the next Roto 0 hot spot.  By then sufficient mumbers of Reservists will have gained the operational experience to function effectively and safely in this AO.

But will D&S experience translate into door kicking experience?


 
Britney Spears said:
But will D&S experience translate into door kicking experience?

Everybody has to start somewhere....

The Reserves on Roto 9 and 10 in Bosnia did nothing but gate and limited QRF for thier entire tour.  I don't know too much about Roto 11's adventures but by Rotos 12 and 13 they were conducting company ops with other elements of their respective BGs and the local Police and TSU (BosnaSWAT) guys.

As an aside, an LPV platoon on Roto 13 (C Coy, 1 Pl  based on 31 CBG troops) actually spent a week teaching Bosnian regulars NATO TTPs so that they could move on to form thier own composite company.

All that progress in 1/2 the time it takes to pay off a new car loan.
 
All that progress in 1/2 the time it takes to pay off a new car loan.

I'm not sure that the gains made during the latter Bosnia rotations reflects any progress on the force generation and operational side at all.  Instead, it reflects a theatre that had - really - been benign for several years and was becoming increasingly stable.  After all, each Reserve rotation into Bosnia, by the very nature of the timings, were generated by new groups of Reservists.

It may well be that D&S is the "new" teeth cutting mission for the Reserve Force on operations.  The fact of the matter remains that we're using PRes soldiers almost entirely for political reasons at present, as the numbers of bayonets tasked does not have a sufficient enough impact on the managed readiness system to alleviate pressure on Regular Force sub-units.  I don't regard D&S as the crap job.  Rather it is an accurate reflection of the capabilities of what can be force generated from the Reserves in the time available.  As c4th aptly pointed out, we're not quite at the stage where Highlanders will be doing heliborne operations along the Pakistani border...
 
The fact of the matter remains that we're using PRes soldiers almost entirely for political reasons at present, as the numbers of bayonets tasked does not have a sufficient enough impact on the managed readiness system to alleviate pressure on Regular Force sub-units.

TR,

Sorry, just a point of clarification because I'm the in-house thicky - are you suggesting that reservists are being deployed only for political reasons and that they aren't really capable of participating in operations as formed units?

Or are you suggesting that they do have a legitimate role as augmentees, but simply aren't having the desired impact on the managed readiness system in terms of force generation that you would like to see?

Or all of the above?

I'm trying to get a handle on what your conclusion and recommendations would be...

Cheers, mdh
 
Sorry, just a point of clarification because I'm the in-house thicky - are you suggesting that reservists are being deployed only for political reasons and that they aren't really capable of participating in operations as formed units?

Well, I'm suggesting that recent formed sub-unit deployments (ie: Reserve companies and the "Reserve" rotations into OP BRONZE) have been deployed largely for political reasons, as I indicated above.   While there were other reasons for the deployments, I believe that they were directed largely for "political" rather than hard operational reasons.

Or are you suggesting that they do have a legitimate role as augmentees, but simply aren't having the desired impact on the managed readiness system in terms of force generation that you would like to see?
 

Reservists certainly have a role as individual augmentees,   but I believe that the Reserve Force is not structured and resourced to provide sub-unit level augmentation without an inordinate amount of additional training and preparation.  The effort required to deploy a Res sub-unit (IMHO) exceeds the limited gains made in terms of reducing the strain on the force generation system.

(Edited to simplify my answer...and clean up some grammer)


Cheers,

TR
 
TR,

Good post and food for thought as we're supposed to be working on various "task force" projects in my reserve neck of the woods - and as usual scarce resources have been an issue in terms of our future deployment readiness.

cheers, mdh
 
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