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2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

Quirky

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Sad thing is he's a Veteran.

He joined the infantry/Army in the middle of the Afghanistan war, wanting to head over. I don't think his intentions were noble and to fight "freedom". There are plenty of people like him joining the Army in the early 2000s, they just wanted a legal means of killing people.
 

IKnowNothing

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Yea, I don't like Skipper, but I would offer you're missing:
D. Innocently negligent
Because, as others have pointed out, he very well could have not known who it was at the time of the "hand shake" photo.

That being said, I do find it hypocritical that PP chose to speak out against Mckenzie when he attacked his wife, but not when Mckenzie attacked other people, like CBC journalist Rachel Gilmore.
Honestly, the handshake photo is nothing in and of itself. He does see a lot of people. He's not a protective detail guy, nor a protocol guy, and by the looks of things had neither whispering in his ear. It's a meet and greet, hundreds and thousands of faces, none of them expected to high profile. It's completely excusable that he wouldn't recognize the face.

To not have heard the name or organization? Complete BS. They came up in the HoC debates in Feb. Bernier had a photo with the guy in Ottawa. They were publicly connected to Coutts. Many a word was written about who was at the heart of the convoy etc. He decided to publicly lend his support. Either he did his due diligence or he didn't.

He's had months to learn about these types, and no less than three high profile reasons/opportunities (Convoy and aftermath, Topp march, photo) to have a staffer dive in, brief him, and issue that statement of express and explicit condemnation. He chose not to. He chose to attack the media, to fence, to tip toe around connection and issue vague platitudes. To not force people at the edge of his base to choose.




@Halifax Tar . Yes. Mackenzie is the wrong, RCMP should do it's thing, and regardless of how I feel about PP no one should be subjected to this.
 

Halifax Tar

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He joined the infantry/Army in the middle of the Afghanistan war, wanting to head over. I don't think his intentions were noble and to fight "freedom". There are plenty of people like him joining the Army in the early 2000s, they just wanted a legal means of killing people.

I have it in my head that he deployed with 2 RCR to Afghanistan, but I could be wrong.

According to the article he did deploy, and has PTSD. But I cant vouch for its accuracy.


So according to this he served from 2003-2017

 

Remius

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I'm very confused by your position on this and how it interacts with my original post about the press giving Mackenzie too much attention.
Sorry you are confused. You said the press was giving him too much attention. News is news unfortunately and the attention was brought to the media by PP himself. Not that the press when digging for this. Not sure how that clashes with my position which should be clear.
MacKenzie is a wing nut, and any politician who ties their horse to his cart will do so at their peril.
That is what I said.
Are you some how insinuating that the threat, mention or making light of sexually assaulting PPs wife is some how lesser because at one time he knowingly or not shook hands with MacKenzie ?
That is a lot of creative writing. I said nothing of the sort. Please point out where I said that.
Also you will have to pardon me, but there is a distinct difference between some vandalism and being yelled at and a public threat of sexual assault. I am really confused about the position you and @IKnowNothing are coming from.
You just minimized what happened to those people with that statement. Think about that.
Can we at least agree that MacKenzie is in the wrong and we should let the RCMP do their thing ?
I said as much in my first post about him being a dirt bag.

You missed my point about the hypocrisy on some on both sides regarding this.
 

Halifax Tar

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Sorry you are confused. You said the press was giving him too much attention. News is news unfortunately and the attention was brought to the media by PP himself. Not that the press when digging for this. Not sure how that clashes with my position which should be clear.

My point is simply that by providing him with air time they are fueling his, Mackenzie's, fire. Ignore him. And sure, PP should probably do the same, and just leave it with the RCMP.

That is a lot of creative writing. I said nothing of the sort. Please point out where I said that.

I didn't say you did, that's why I was asking the clarifying question. It comes from:
Anyone who doesn’t think PP hasn’t been courting that kind of person hasn’t been paying attention.

You just minimized what happened to those people with that statement. Think about that.

There is a scale of offences in this country. Some are minor some are not. Something are worse than others.

You missed my point about the hypocrisy on some on both sides regarding this.

Oh no I caught that quite well.

I get that you and others aren't fans of PP, and that's a-ok, but even it what should be a unifying position you and other have decided to get partisan about him.
 

Remius

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My point is simply that by providing him with air time they are fueling his, Mackenzie's, fire. Ignore him. And sure, PP should probably do the same, and just leave it with the RCMP.



I didn't say you did, that's why I was asking the clarifying question. It comes from:




There is a scale of offences in this country. Some are minor some are not. Something are worse than others.



Oh no I caught that quite well.

I get that you and others aren't fans of PP, and that's a-ok, but even it what should be a unifying position you and other have decided to get partisan about him.

There is a scale of offences. Shouldn’t be minimized regardless. mckenna had her office vandalized, was confronted in a public place on more than one occasion, received plenty of threats, death, sexualized violence etc etc But somehow that isn’t enough to merit calling out? In her case things went from virtual online to in person and physical. That’s the hypocrisy I am calling out. Where some saw this as no big deal but now it’s an issue because their guy is the victim now.


How did I get partisan? I pointed out the hypocrisy of both sides in this. Those that were ok with or silent this sort of garbage happened to others and those that take smug satisfaction that it is happening to PP and as I said in particular his wife. And no I’m not a fan of PP, that’s irrelevant to the fact that this and other extreme actions are not acceptable regardless of the political leanings.

That should clear things up. If not feel free to PM me.
 

Halifax Tar

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There is a scale of offences. Shouldn’t be minimized regardless. mckenna had her office vandalized, was confronted in a public place on more than one occasion, received plenty of threats, death, sexualized violence etc etc But somehow that isn’t enough to merit calling out? In her case things went from virtual online to in person and physical. That’s the hypocrisy I am calling out. Where some saw this as no big deal but now it’s an issue because their guy is the victim now.

I've only heard of McKenna having her office vandalized. Any threats she has received deplorable and should be dealt with no different than with PP.

How did I get partisan? I pointed out the hypocrisy of both sides in this. Those that were ok with or silent this sort of garbage happened to others and those that take smug satisfaction that it is happening to PP and as I said in particular his wife. And no I’m not a fan of PP, that’s irrelevant to the fact that this and other extreme actions are not acceptable regardless of the political leanings.

See below.
Anyone who doesn’t think PP hasn’t been courting that kind of person hasn’t been paying attention.

What does that have to do with threats against his, PP's, wife ?
 

Lumber

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The term 'partisan' keeps coming up. There's a lot of talk about how those of us who are speaking out against Skippy as being "Partisan". We're not speaking out against the CPC, or are we speaking in favour of the LPC, we are only speaking out against Skippy. How does that make us partisan?
 

Halifax Tar

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The term 'partisan' keeps coming up. There's a lot of talk about how those of us who are speaking out against Skippy as being "Partisan". We're not speaking out against the CPC, or are we speaking in favour of the LPC, we are only speaking out against Skippy. How does that make us partisan?

Partisan isn't a term only for political party allegiance.

Someone can be construed as being partisan for their like or dislike about anything including an individual.


Capture.PNG
 

Remius

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I've only heard of McKenna having her office vandalized. Any threats she has received deplorable and should be dealt with no different than with PP.



See below.


What does that have to do with threats against his, PP's, wife ?
Plenty of media stories about the abuse she went through. Easily googled.

My post (which admittedly was to be broad in relation to the discussion up thread) that included that was addressing the whole “he shakes hands and meets all sorts of people” part of the thread. And that he doesn’t always know who he meets.

Which is true. My point though is that he has and is courting a segment of the right that he knows has people like that.

He isn’t stupid or uninformed.
 

Lumber

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What does that have to do with threats against his, PP's, wife ?

Partisan isn't a term only for political party allegiance.

Someone can be construed as being partisan for their like or dislike about anything including an individual.
Yes, except it's not "like or dislike", it's almost exclusively "like". Partisan normally refers to being strongly in favour of a particular person/group/party/etc., not against one (unless the party you're supporting literally has that in their sloga, like if an Anti-Harper party... but lets not go down that road).

In context of political discussion, when you are being partisan, it 'generally' means that you are forgoing/ignoring objective facts in favour of supporting your preferred person/group/party etc. In context of this discussion, being called partisan implies you are arguing against PP not because we have an objective belief that he is a bad choice, but instead because we are are so staunchly supportive of other parties we are attacking PP regardless of objective truths.
 

Halifax Tar

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Yes, except it's not "like or dislike", it's almost exclusively "like". Partisan normally refers to being strongly in favour of a particular person/group/party/etc., not against one (unless the party you're supporting literally has that in their sloga, like if an Anti-Harper party... but lets not go down that road).

In context of political discussion, when you are being partisan, it 'generally' means that you are forgoing/ignoring objective facts in favour of supporting your preferred person/group/party etc. In context of this discussion, being called partisan implies you are arguing against PP not because we have an objective belief that he is a bad choice, but instead because we are are so staunchly supportive of other parties we are attacking PP regardless of objective truths.

I believe you're now being partisan about the usage of the word partisan ;)
 

Lumber

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I don't know if the "CPC Leadership" thread is the best place for this, but we don't have another recent conservative centric thread, so I'll just leave this here:

On carbon pricing:

"What is it doing to prevent disasters?"

"How come it didn't prevent Hurricane Fiona? Where are those tax dollars going?"



🙄
 

brihard

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Sorry you are confused. You said the press was giving him too much attention. News is news unfortunately and the attention was brought to the media by PP himself. Not that the press when digging for this. Not sure how that clashes with my position which should be clear.

That is what I said.

That is a lot of creative writing. I said nothing of the sort. Please point out where I said that.

You just minimized what happened to those people with that statement. Think about that.

I said as much in my first post about him being a dirt bag.

You missed my point about the hypocrisy on some on both sides regarding this.
Looks like Jeremy MacKenzie was arrested today. Apparently Saskatchewan RCMP extended the warrant that was out for him in SK. That’s what I guessed would happen; it’s an expedient way to get him in custody on existing charges.

EDIT TO ADD: One count of assault, one of mischief, one of pointing a firearm, one of careless use of a restricted firearm. These charges stem from events that allegedly took place last November and were reported this summer.

 
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Halifax Tar

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I don't know if the "CPC Leadership" thread is the best place for this, but we don't have another recent conservative centric thread, so I'll just leave this here:

On carbon pricing:

"What is it doing to prevent disasters?"

"How come it didn't prevent Hurricane Fiona? Where are those tax dollars going?"



🙄

He lost me at Convoy Party.
 

Halifax Tar

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#JustInflation?

But seriously, you should watch the video. She actually says that.

I have said repeatedly my position on #Justinflation.

I would but my computer doesn't have speakers. Thanks DND :)

You mean we cant just tax away climate change ? Who knew...
 

Remius

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