2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Remius]

O'Toole tried a similar play and it blew up pretty hard in his face.

When you're as fractured as the CPC/PPC; going from slightly right of centre to "what in the Jesus Christ was that?" right, you're not going to win everyone in the party. The key to a majority lies in the centre. There are enough Blue grits unhappy with the LPC that are willing to flip; only if they can be sure that the lunatics won't get hold of the asylum.

O’toole’s mistake was that it was blatant.

Poilievre’s tactic might be to be light on any policy or even be void of any policy. It would let him shift significantly without being seen as a bait and switch. As long as the sound bites come, his base won’t care much about policy.

I’m curious to see if that is indeed his play.

Your last point is the challenge.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Email from a candidate says that 450k votes are outstanding. Pure conjecture on my part, but perhaps too much onus was put on PP avoiding the debate due to risk and he really does need to focus on getting out the vote. Driving to a rally is exciting. Clicking a link, ticking a box, and using your auto-fill credit card information is easy. Scanning/photocopying your drivers license, filling out declarations by hand, getting them to the mail on time? Inconvenient and annoying.

 

[RangerRay]

PP being compared to Trump? Seriously guys? Current and ex-military people, please shake your heads.

You know what really damages Canada? Its people who keep focusing on guys like PP as some sort of "frothing angry Hitler-like" populist and in my views, some are implying he is all the "bad" things (he is white therefore racist, he is pro-Canadian therefore anti-indigenous, he is pro-economy therefore his a sellout for large corporations, etc).
And then IGNORE the worst Prime Minister of all Canadian history, Justin Trudeau. Focus. Please.
-SNC Lavalin
-Firing JWR for doing her job
-Lost several female MPs because of his ideology
-Went from Majority party to minority party
-Called an election when he said he wouldn't
-Agra Khan gift receiving
-Two ethics violations convictions
-Elbowing collegues
-WE scandal
-The list keeps going and going

FOCUS. At this point a brain dead baboon could do a better job of running this nation then the current clown. Will PP do a better job if elected to lead the party and eventually the nation? Hell yes. He could come in sh*t faced drunk everyday and still do better.

I think it’s possible to both believe that Justin Trudeau is the worst PM in Canadian history AND that Pierre Pollievre is the worst choice to defeat said worst PM in history. It’s also possible to believe that all the other candidates are not up to the task either.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Caution ... Geezer eruption!

I share the opinion of the Good Grey Globe's Editorial Board.

Too many of our American friends have lost their political minds. I guess I understand that many people are fed up to here with the antics of the Laurentian Elites and their US (and British and Australian) cousins. But Donald J Trump is a reprehensible human being and a disgrace to the party that nominated him for high office. I have friends (good friends, I hope) on both sides of our shared border who supported Trump in 2016. I thought he was the least bad of the two main candidates six years ago. Now I think, maybe just hope, that they now see that he is, as he was in 2016, a monster.

Many Canadian Conservatives support Trumpian tactics. I believe that is a disservice to our political process. We need to look at ourselves, at our own political heritage and values - at Macdonald, Laurier, Borden and St Laurent - great Conservatives and great Liberals, too, but, above all, great and honest and able Canadians - and declare them to be the examples we want our leaders to follow.

I am not part of what was described by one astute political analyst as the Harper/Poilievre "fusion." I think I stand aloof, at least at some distance from that (3rd image). But so, I think, does a solid majority of Canadians (4th image).

I believe that the Conservative party needs to and can move a substantial minority (40+% of voters) away from the illiberal left and up towards the small L liberal realm of socio-economic-politcal belief (5th image).

I'm not sure that Pierre Poilievre is the best leader to do that, but then I don't believe that the best leaders entered the race to replace Erin O'Toole. But that's a personal view. The Conservative party appears to be Mr Poilievre's, for better or for worse.

If I was "havin' my druthers" I'd rather see something like this (6th image) for Canada's responsible, conservative (by which I mean small L liberal) future.

Geezer eruption ends.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Trump, Trudeau, PP and populism are symptoms. Symptoms of a broken system. Symptoms of a populace who is either disinterested or distrustful of the political class. Symptoms of a completely disconnected political establishment. Symptoms of a populace who don't believe the Gov is working in their best interest.

We will continue to get this, in Canada as well, until:

(1) A political leader emerges that inspires and effects actual positive change.

or

(2) The populace rise up and reset the system.

I'm hoping for #1.

 

[Furniture]

That may well be the case. And I do appreciate that he's read the room and (unlike Lewis) has been increasingly leaning away from the WEF/ COVID grievance angle and finding newer and (somewhat) more legitimate issues to stoke anger at.

Personally I hate the constant misrepresentation and oversimplification of issues to form attacks, but if it's actually a form of "weaning" people back to reality to keep them under the tent... it makes it more palatable.

But I'd much prefer a principled, grounded in reality, solution based, "This is why I'm better" leader to a "Trudeau sucks" soundbite machine

The problem with that is, Canadian's aren't interested in a dull but capable PM. Canadians want the emotional arguments, which is why the LPC have gone that route, they aren't interested in long complicated answers that don't make a good soundbite.

 

[IKnowNothing]

@Edward Campbell , thank-you for the links, led me down an excellent Speer/Kheiriddin morning diversion.

 

[Good2Golf]

I think PP's main problem is that he is trying to win the Party, without a plan to win the country.

I have been trying to be positive and look for some patterns that would indicate some kind of well-played pivot from party campaigning to a win-capable leader and still having trouble seeing it. Maybe it’s just me, but maybe not just me.

The same thing happened in the NDP. Singh was touted as the new face to lead the NDP into a second Orange Crush, with massive party support for his Leadership bid. He instead has fallen flat with Canadians and the NDP is suffering for it.

The tailored suits, Rolexes and flashy BMW Z4 convertible certainly didn’t help…

I believe that Trudeau’s days are numbered and that aside from a lame attempt over the next 38 months to generate some kind of self-aggrandizing virtuous legacy followed by some modern day equivalent of his dad’s “walk out in the snowfall” such as a mindful surf along the Tofino beachfront after which he will tearfully wish Canadians well as he ‘takes time now with my family…’, leaving the CPC to deal with a fresh(ish) face (Vegas bookmakers probably supporting Chrystia Freeland) that will likely pose a greater challenge to the CPC than a decade-in-office JT…

 

[IKnowNothing]

leaving the CPC to deal with a fresh(ish) face (Vegas bookmakers probably supporting Chrystia Freeland) that will likely pose a greater challenge to the CPC than a decade-in-office JT…

Smarter play would be Carney in my opinion

 

[Halifax Tar]

I have never met PP in person. But I have been over his website, and his WIKI...

I'm not sure what others find so distasteful. He's defiantly a "gotcha" tactic guy using social media, but so are all the others; that's politics these days. He wasn't my first choice in party elections, but his positions on different topics are either aligned with mine or close enough.

 

[Good2Golf]

Smarter play would be Carney in my opinion

Agree, personally, but the Cult of Personality wants to take “Because it’s 2015!” and raise it up a notch to “Because it’s 2025!” (To have the first elected woman PM).

 

[Remius]

Smarter play would be Carney in my opinion

Could be but that would be a possible Ignatieff situation. I like Anand. But the LPC is short on adults in the room as well.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Symptoms of a populace who is either disinterested or distrustful of the political class.

People trusting the ruling class has never been common. So much time is wasted discussing ways to making voting more "fair" (usually, majoritarian) by people who resent the choices the majority of the people make.

 

[Kirkhill]

Caution ... Geezer eruption!

I share the opinion of the Good Grey Globe's Editorial Board.

Too many of our American friends have lost their political minds. I guess I understand that many people are fed up to here with the antics of the Laurentian Elites and their US (and British and Australian) cousins. But Donald J Trump is a reprehensible human being and a disgrace to the party that nominated him for high office. I have friends (good friends, I hope) on both sides of our shared border who supported Trump in 2016. I thought he was the least bad of the two main candidates six years ago. Now I think, maybe just hope, that they now see that he is, as he was in 2016, a monster.

Many Canadian Conservatives support Trumpian tactics. I believe that is a disservice to our political process. We need to look at ourselves, at our own political heritage and values - at Macdonald, Laurier, Borden and St Laurent - great Conservatives and great Liberals, too, but, above all, great and honest and able Canadians - and declare them to be the examples we want our leaders to follow.

I am not part of what was described by one astute political analyst as the Harper/Poilievre "fusion." I think I stand aloof, at least at some distance from that (3rd image). But so, I think, does a solid majority of Canadians (4th image).

I believe that the Conservative party needs to and can move a substantial minority (40+% of voters) away from the illiberal left and up towards the small L liberal realm of socio-economic-politcal belief (5th image).

I'm not sure that Pierre Poilievre is the best leader to do that, but then I don't believe that the best leaders entered the race to replace Erin O'Toole. But that's a personal view. The Conservative party appears to be Mr Poilievre's, for better or for worse.

If I was "havin' my druthers" I'd rather see something like this (6th image) for Canada's responsible, conservative (by which I mean small L liberal) future.

Geezer eruption ends.

Sorry to say that I am one of those that still think that Trump was the least worst. And a necessary hand grenade.

Trump's great crime in the eyes of many, was to meet illiberalism with illiberalism, to apply Alinsky's rules of the Left against the Left. This was not gentlemanly or sporting and had nothing to do with the Marquess of Queensberry (just down the road from Ayr in Galloway). It had everything to do with a Brooklyn Donnybrook. And he was up for it.

That made him attractive to many of the general population who the gentle set found too odoriferous.

The peculiarity in all of this is that those same people would have voted for Bernie if he had been on the ballot.

The Donald and Bernie are two sides of the same coin. A coin that the Beltway couldn't accept.

Do I like the Donald?

A better question is Do I like the Establishment?

 

[blacktriangle]

I have never met PP in person. But I have been over his website, and his WIKI...

I'm not sure what others find so distasteful. He's defiantly a "gotcha" tactic guy using social media, but so are all the others; that's politics these days. He wasn't my first choice in party elections, but his positions on different topics are either aligned with mine or close enough.

I live on the western edge of Ottawa. Pierre is my MP.

Do I agree with him on everything? No. Has he taken the time to speak with me in person? Yes. Do I feel like he represents my interests (and more importantly, the national interest) better than the alternatives? Yes.

As I grow older, I realize that I believe in Liberalism. Why then, do I not feel, that I should vote for the Liberal Party of Canada?

My family came here generations ago as poor immigrants. At least three generations have answered the call to serve this country. And we would do so again, if need be. Canada has given us a chance to prosper, and for that, we are grateful. And we want nothing less for other families - be they long established Canadians, or newcomers.

So, if there is a better alternative to a PM Pierre Poilievre, perhaps someone could clue me in?

 

[RangerRay]

As I grow older, I realize that I believe in Liberalism. Why then, do I not feel, that I should vote for the Liberal Party of Canada?

The way I see it, all the main parties are moving away from liberalism to illiberalism.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

The way I see it, all the main parties are moving away from liberalism to illiberalism.

A few posts up I made a comment about Canadians as a whole live in the Centre and want to have 2 parties that essentially are the same; that way, when they're sick of one, they can swap to the other.

This is why the PPC and NDP are such paper tigers. It's Red or Blue in some variance and will be until the end of days. The problem becomes when either party strays too far from that centre in either direction. The LPC is drifting left much to the national detriment and the CPC is drifting right much to their own detriment.

Unless PP et al can convince voters that they are basically a more fiscally responsible LPC, they won't get the popular support needed to govern.

 

[IKnowNothing]

O’toole’s mistake was that it was blatant.

I don't even know if his "mistake" had anything to do with the shift. He won the popular vote despite losing a lot of pandemic voters to the PPC.

I'd say his mistake was underestimating how ready the party base was to break "free" once the perceived threat was past. He had to thread a very narrow needle respecting the need for pandemic measures throughout the threat time but aggressively calling Trudeau out for politicizing the end stages to divide and alienate people.

And given that he was ousted by caucus, not the base, it's likely that biggest mistake wasn't even public facing policy ,it was underestimating PP's ambition and opportunism re: the above

 

[Good2Golf]

Interesting take by Michelle Rempel-Garner on PP and whether Trudeau may call a fall election to avoid his own ousting from the LPC.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1559977202275467264

 

[mariomike]

But Donald J Trump is a reprehensible human being and a disgrace to the party that nominated him for high office.

Many Canadian Conservatives support Trumpian tactics.

Nice.

Sarcasm emoji