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2 men hack soldier to death in UK, are then shot and wounded by police

George Wallace

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recceguy said:
Nice opening salvo in the 'fan the flames of speculation' department.

It appears, in all the footage, that the Police forces are more often protecting one faction over another, not really being non-partisan in whom they arresting.  I am only wondering, if the UK is being the instrument of its own downfall, in holding beliefs and enforcing laws that the Islamists do not believe in, but use to manipulate for their own benefit.  Will our own beliefs, laws and Charter of Human Rights only be tools to allow these radicals free reign to preach and conduct their war on Kafirs?  Will the Western democracy's see their own laws to protect minorities, including the obvious radicals, only further radicalize other organizations?  We are seeing organizations like the English Defence League (EDL) growing in the UK, perhaps as a result of Islamist attacks and protests in the UK.  Other groups are no doubt forming in opposition to what they perceive as radical religious sects.  The English Defence League of Canada already exists.

Is this not just pure science; "Newton's laws of motion - Law III: To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction."?

From Wikipedia:

Newton's laws of motion are three physical laws that together laid the foundation for classical mechanics. They describe the relationship between a body and the forces acting upon it, and its motion in response to said forces. They have been expressed in several different ways over nearly three centuries, and can be summarized as follows:

1.First law: An object at rest remains at rest unless acted upon by a force. An object in motion remains in motion, and at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by a force.

2.Second law: The acceleration of a body is directly proportional to, and in the same direction as, the net force acting on the body, and inversely proportional to its mass. Thus, F = ma, where F is the net force acting on the object, m is the mass of the object and a is the acceleration of the object.

3.Third law: When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction to that of the first body.


In a way, the events happening around the world in relation to these events, seem to be following the above laws.
 

Fishbone Jones

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George Wallace said:
It appears, in all the footage, that the Police forces are more often protecting one faction over another, not really being non-partisan in whom they arresting.  I am only wondering, if the UK is being the instrument of its own downfall, in holding beliefs and enforcing laws that the Islamists do not believe in, but use to manipulate for their own benefit.  Will our own beliefs, laws and Charter of Human Rights only be tools to allow these radicals free reign to preach and conduct their war on Kafirs?  Will the Western democracy's see their own laws to protect minorities, including the obvious radicals, only further radicalize other organizations?  We are seeing organizations like the English Defence League (EDL) growing in the UK, perhaps as a result of Islamist attacks and protests in the UK.  Other groups are no doubt forming in opposition to what they perceive as radical religious sects.  The English Defence League of Canada already exists.

Is this not just pure science; "Newton's laws of motion - Law III: To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction."?

From Wikipedia:

Newton's laws of motion are three physical laws that together laid the foundation for classical mechanics. They describe the relationship between a body and the forces acting upon it, and its motion in response to said forces. They have been expressed in several different ways over nearly three centuries, and can be summarized as follows:

1.First law: An object at rest remains at rest unless acted upon by a force. An object in motion remains in motion, and at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by a force.

2.Second law: The acceleration of a body is directly proportional to, and in the same direction as, the net force acting on the body, and inversely proportional to its mass. Thus, F = ma, where F is the net force acting on the object, m is the mass of the object and a is the acceleration of the object.

3.Third law: When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction to that of the first body.


In a way, the events happening around the world in relation to these events, seem to be following the above laws.

When I retire, I want some of what you're smoking this morning. ;)
 

OldSolduer

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recceguy said:
Sorry. We've already done that stupid exercise of riding buses and changing into uniform at work. Not being seen in uniform in public places, etc.

Dumb, degrading and nothing more than politically expedient for some useless decision makers that never left a building anyway.

Soldiers are what they are. It's in the job description.

I agree. We don't run and hide from danger. We march towards it.
 

George Wallace

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If I may quote some words from a friend in response to a person who says that they have lived in a Muslim country:

I have too lived in a number of Muslim countries. I've spent more than 10% of my life living in Muslim countries in fact. My degree is in Asian civilizations, about a third of which I spent studying Islam. I earn my living studying Islamic organizations today, and have over 9 years professional experience doing so.

I have read the Quran in its entirety. HAVE YOU? I suspect not.

In the Quran, later revelations of Muhammad take precedence over the earlier ones - it's known as the Principle of Abrogation. The 9th chapter is comprised of the the latest 'revelations' from Muhammad, and so overrides any inconsistent previous 'revelations'. Some gems:

Surah 9.5: "After the forbidden months have passed, slay the unbelievers wherever you find them; capture them, torture them, besiege them, prepare every stratagem of warfare against them..."

Surah 9.29: "Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, Nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden By God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the Religion Of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book, Until they pay the Jizya (a tax on infidels) With willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

This isn't anecdotal. The Quran contains over 100 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. (For what it's worth, that means that the Quran should be legally considered hate-speech, but that's another debate for another time). Most of the violent verses were revealed later in Muhammad's life, and clearly abrogate earlier peaceful verses.

There are 91 (yes, ninety-one) Surahs in the Quran that tell the Muslims either to follow the example of the Prophet, that he is the perfect model of behaviour, or that Allah has chosen a guy who is really perfect (implying he is to be emulated).

But Muhammad was a warlord.
Muhammad was a mass-murderer.
Muhammad was a slave owner.
Muhammad was a rapist.
Muhammad was a thief.
Muhammad was a torturer.
Muhammad was a wife abuser.
Muhammad was a child molester.

All these things, HE HIMSELF ADMITTED TO IN HIS OWN REVELATIONS, and are all well documented in multiple accounts in his life. It's clear: Muslims are commanded to emulate the behaviour of one of the most disgusting, evil people in history.

So XXX, you might believe that Islam does not encourage murder, but you are naive and having lived in a Muslim country at one point is not sufficient evidence to make that argument.

Islam encourages murder, explicitly so. Now, are all muslims violent? Of course not, just as not all Roman Catholics follow all of Jesus' teachings or obey the Pope. But non-violent Muslims are in fact NOT TRUE MUSLIMS, as they disobey the Quran and fail to follow the Prophet's example. In order to be non-violent, a "muslim" must disobey almost 200 verses of the Quran every single day.

Thankfully most Muslims in North America are bad, non-observant Muslims, as evidenced by the rare incidence of attacks. We need to encourage Muslims to abandon the Quran and abandon Muhammad's example (though it's questionable if they'll still technically be Muslims at that point).


You might note that Surah 9.29 does not specifically target infidels, but also includes fellow Muslims who may not follow what the Islamists consider the 'true' words of the Quran.
 

George Wallace

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Some food for thought, from an email that is circulating (perhaps in your inbox right now):

A German's View on Islam - worth reading.

This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read.
His references to past history are accurate and clear.
Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read.
The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.


A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.

'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people..

The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

Now Islamic prayers have been introduced into Toronto and other public schools in Ontario , and, yes, in Ottawa too while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?) The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.

In Australia , and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem (see the attachment), just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation’s shores.

In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of “no-go” zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.

As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts -- the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world-wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before it's too late.

And we are silent...

History constantly repeats itself.
 

Cdn Blackshirt

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Just wanted to give George POTW honours for the breakdown of the Islamist texts.

After 09/11, I read them too....

I was always able to understand how hate could be magnified inside a closed regime.  I was baffled that those who were studying in Western Nations with freedom of the press were able to sustain such ideology.

In reading everything I could, my takeaways were exactly per George's quote.  It's not pretty.  It's not comfortable to accept.  But that is the reality.

Islam by any definition is a Religion of Peace only after they have killed or converted everyone to their religion.  Until then, it is most certainly a religion of war.

Two additions I'll make to the quote from George:

1.  What the Islamic Texts teach as a base world view:  According to Islam the world is actually divided into (2) parts - Dar al Islam (the world of Islam) and Dar al Harb (the world at War).  And jihad is the way with which Islam will defeat the non-believers and convert all to Dar al Islam. This base philosophy fundamentally undermines any claim that can be made about Islam being a religion of peace.

2.  Based on all of this, my view is that unlike the claims that the terrorists are the heretics, bastardizing the religion, they are in fact the only ones following the rules of their faith.  It is those who integrate and get along with infidels who are actually the heretics as they are not following the rules as dictated in the texts.

I wish I had a solution to make all this reconcile, but as long as the rules are taught as written, Islam will always bring violence on non-believers....it's not a matter of 'if'.  It's a matter of 'how much'.


M. 
 

Towards_the_gap

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Jim Seggie said:
I agree. We don't run and hide from danger. We march towards it.

But our families don't, and it's not a far stretch of the imagination to see military families targeted as well.
 

GAP

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I would not want to be the young braggart in the pubs over there especially where there are Armed Forces personnel,  embellishing/glorifying this whole thing.

I think they would get put down pretty quickly.
 

Jacky Tar

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I'm not normally a fan of the death penalty for murder, given  how many people have been wrongfully convicted and executed. But in a case like this, where the scum's acts were caught on video - hell, they invited people to video them! - where there is no possible doubt as to their gult, then the only thing to do is execute them. There's bleeding-hearts already intervening for them, saying they had legitimate grievances, or that they were mentally disturbed.

Bullshit.

Their grievances may be legitimate, but their actions are not. And if they committed such a horrific murder, specifically targeting a soldier simply for that he was a soldier, due to mental illness, well we put down mad dogs. I see no difference here.
 

PuckChaser

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Life in prison, no parole, in segregation. Don't make them martyrs. Make them live long, and miserable lives in jail.
 

ModlrMike

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PuckChaser said:
Life in prison, no parole, in segregation. Don't make them martyrs. Make them live long, and miserable lives in jail.

No segregation! If they think that society has done them a hard turn, life in gen pop will quickly disabuse them of that notion.
 
J

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With a daily regimen of enthuastically applied Cuban  "water" sports.
 

Kirkhill

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No problem with stretching them - or turning them over to the Fusiliers for a lifetime of servitude as "regimental servants".
 

Fishbone Jones

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While the wont for revenge, in kind, is strong and as heinous and disgusting as this incident was, please everyone, remember our policy here about back alley justice, etc.

We'll not lower ourselves to the status of the perpetrators by voicing opinions like them.

---Staff---
 

daftandbarmy

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Kirkhill said:
No problem with stretching them - or turning them over to the Fusiliers for a lifetime of servitude as "regimental servants".

The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers' regimental home happens to be the Tower of London:

http://www.hrp.org.uk/TowerOfLondon/stories/palacehighlights/thefusiliermuseum

Just sayin'...
 

Kirkhill

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daftandbarmy said:
The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers' regimental home happens to be the Tower of London:

http://www.hrp.org.uk/TowerOfLondon/stories/palacehighlights/thefusiliermuseum

Just sayin'...

p6070259.jpg
 

Jacky Tar

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PuckChaser said:
Life in prison, no parole, in segregation. Don't make them martyrs. Make them live long, and miserable lives in jail.

Why should they be housed at Crown expense for the rest of their natural lives? Execute them - peferably using the means specified in the Qu'ran for murderers, to make it clear to the rest that this is not Islam vs. the world, but two murderers receiving their just desserts. Then their ashes scattered so there's no focal point for martyrdom or jihad.
 

Privateer

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Link to what is described as the "full video": http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=37e_1369335448

The killer's statement is transcribed as follows:


"The only reason we have killed this man today is because Muslims are
dying daily by British soldiers. And this British soldier is one. It is
an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. By Allah, we swear by the
almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone.
So what if we want to live by the Shari'a in Muslim lands? Why does
that mean you must follow us and chase us and call us extremists and
kill us? Rather you lot are extreme. You are the ones that when you drop
a bomb you think it hits one person? Or rather your bomb wipes out a
whole family? This is the reality. By Allah if I saw your mother today
with a buggy I would help her up the stairs. This is my nature. But we
are forced by the Qur'an, in Sura At-Tawba, through many ayah in the
Qu'ran, we must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye, a tooth
for a tooth. I apologise that women had to witness this today but in our
lands women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove
your governments, they don’t care about you. You think David Cameron is
going to get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? You
think politicians are going to die? No, it’s going to be the average
guy, like you and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring
our troops back so can all live in peace. So leave our lands and we can
all live in peace. That’s all I have to say. [in Arabic:] Allah’s peace
and blessings be upon you."
 

Kat Stevens

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recceguy said:
While the wont for revenge, in kind, is strong and as heinous and disgusting as this incident was, please everyone, remember our policy here about back alley justice, etc.

We'll not lower ourselves to the status of the perpetrators by voicing opinions like them.

---Staff---

One day the high road is going to be blocked with the corpses of all the civilized nations that chose to take it.
 
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