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‘White nationalism’ a threat the Canadian Armed Forces aren’t equipped for: watchdog

OldSolduer

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So this is directed at me.
I was 9 years old when this was going on. I remember the “go ahead and bleed” statement from the PM

To me the FLQ was a group dedicated to the independence of Quebec and indirectly keeping it “pure lain” (pardon my piss poor French) and therefore is another version of white supremacy.

Yes they had broad support initially, but how many more people were willing to take up arms against the federal government? Not enough to cause a revolution on the scale we’ve seen in other countries (Vietnam, Algeria, Ireland)
I was 13.

I’m from Saskatchewan and it was reported that the FLQ was all for an independent Quebec free from Anglo pig dogs (I made that up).

Once they murder Mr Laporte shit got serious.

That’s what they were - murderers
 

ueo

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The FLQ was about some kind of cultural supremacy. As broad as the Francophonie is, I don't think they had their Caribbean, African, Asian, etc brethren in mind. But there's a useful point to observe: that there's a difference between "X which also happens to have the characteristic Y", and "X is Y". More people ought bear it in mind.
Ok . given and accepted that they were predominatly white which in my mind firmly locks them into tht racist category.
 

ueo

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Early on in my career, I definitely remember derogatory comments being made about certain identifiable groups by instructors/supervisors. I also remember rants about women by those that had experienced messy divorces etc, and just a general lack of respect for women (even other serving members)

Being bombarded by that kind of crap at 17-18, by people in positions of authority, doesn't help a new recruit become a more well-adjusted member of the military/society.

Looking back, some of these folks were probably dealing with their own mental baggage from operational experiences. Others were probably just racist/misogynist assholes. Either way, they were in need of some serious deprogramming, but were instead tasked with programming the next generation.

So while it's prudent to make sure you aren't bringing in external hire extremists, it probably doesn't hurt to make sure you aren't breeding them internally.
some of these folks were probably dealing with their own mental baggage from operational experiences.
Huh Whaat? Proof pls in concrete please.
 

The Bread Guy

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Ok . given and accepted that they were predominatly white which in my mind firmly locks them into tht racist category.
Given some whites were considered better than others in that part of the world in that time by some, I would slot them as racist (maybe more culturalist or nationalist?), but not White Supremicist.
 

TacticalTea

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In other words, supremacy of the priorities, the values, the way of life - the culture. They were planning to set up their socialist Francophone state and not place their language and culture above those of the all the non-Francophones?
Look if I follow your logic, there should be a single global government. After all, it's white supremacy to promote the idea of a nation state, no?

Or Ukraine should surrender to Russia. What does it matter that Russia rules them? It's white supremacy for them to attempt to affirm themselves as a nation. Hence, the Azov Nazis!

But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't agree with those ideas so it's hard to take your point seriously here.

I understand that, as an anglo-canadian, you may feel that Quebec gets a special treatment all the time. As if it's oh so different.

Truth of the matter is, it is indeed so different. PMJT and his dad err when they pretend Canada is a post-national state. It is - and has always been - a binational state. And both nations have different priorities, values, needs and wants. Sometimes it makes a lot of sense for a program to be federally managed, with the exception of Quebec.

Quebec nationalism is just an extension of that. Wanting to have all the tools available at their disposal to ensure the best outcomes for Quebec, as a nation.
 

Weinie

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Look if I follow your logic, there should be a single global government. After all, it's white supremacy to promote the idea of a nation state, no?

Or Ukraine should surrender to Russia. What does it matter that Russia rules them? It's white supremacy for them to attempt to affirm themselves as a nation. Hence, the Azov Nazis!

But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't agree with those ideas so it's hard to take your point seriously here.

I understand that, as an anglo-canadian, you may feel that Quebec gets a special treatment all the time. As if it's oh so different.

Truth of the matter is, it is indeed so different. PMJT and his dad err when they pretend Canada is a post-national state. It is - and has always been - a binational state. And both nations have different priorities, values, needs and wants. Sometimes it makes a lot of sense for a program to be federally managed, with the exception of Quebec.

Quebec nationalism is just an extension of that. Wanting to have all the tools available at their disposal to ensure the best outcomes for Quebec, as a nation.
But you are not a nation. You are one of the provinces.
 

Remius

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Halifax Tar

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Look if I follow your logic, there should be a single global government. After all, it's white supremacy to promote the idea of a nation state, no?

Or Ukraine should surrender to Russia. What does it matter that Russia rules them? It's white supremacy for them to attempt to affirm themselves as a nation. Hence, the Azov Nazis!

But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't agree with those ideas so it's hard to take your point seriously here.

I understand that, as an anglo-canadian, you may feel that Quebec gets a special treatment all the time. As if it's oh so different.

Truth of the matter is, it is indeed so different. PMJT and his dad err when they pretend Canada is a post-national state. It is - and has always been - a binational state. And both nations have different priorities, values, needs and wants. Sometimes it makes a lot of sense for a program to be federally managed, with the exception of Quebec.

Quebec nationalism is just an extension of that. Wanting to have all the tools available at their disposal to ensure the best outcomes for Quebec, as a nation.

If Que is its own nation can we stop sending federal funding their way and move all federal offices and establishments out ?
 

ArmyRick

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Given some whites were considered better than others in that part of the world in that time by some, I would slot them as racist (maybe more culturalist or nationalist?), but not White Supremicist.
My Maternal grandfather was Irish protestant. He had such huge hate for Irish Catholics that it was unbelievable. Funny his second youngest daughter (mom) married a catholic.
 

Remius

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I refer to the differences between nation and country. Link above in previous post.

tactical tea is using that context.

Countries are always sovereign, nations not always so.
 

Brad Sallows

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Look if I follow your logic, there should be a single global government. After all, it's white supremacy to promote the idea of a nation state, no?

Or Ukraine should surrender to Russia. What does it matter that Russia rules them? It's white supremacy for them to attempt to affirm themselves as a nation. Hence, the Azov Nazis!

But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't agree with those ideas so it's hard to take your point seriously here.

I understand that, as an anglo-canadian, you may feel that Quebec gets a special treatment all the time. As if it's oh so different.

Truth of the matter is, it is indeed so different. PMJT and his dad err when they pretend Canada is a post-national state. It is - and has always been - a binational state. And both nations have different priorities, values, needs and wants. Sometimes it makes a lot of sense for a program to be federally managed, with the exception of Quebec.

Quebec nationalism is just an extension of that. Wanting to have all the tools available at their disposal to ensure the best outcomes for Quebec, as a nation.
Maybe you should go back and read my posts. I've consistently talked about cultural supremacy, not white supremacy. Recollect "x having the characteristic Y" does not mean "X is Y". The FLQ may have been mostly white; that doesn't necessarily make them white supremacists. It doesn't preclude them being nevertheless potential illiberal cultural chauvinists. I mostly agree with you on the "not white supremacist" point (it's unproven); I disagree that they weren't seeking cultural supremacy on their own terms. It's difficult to measure where "Rome for the Romans" becomes indefensible. Moreover, if I were to only criticize them for their particular aims I'd miss the chance to simply criticize them for being leftist revolutionaries, which have for just over 100 years now committed the worst outrages on the planet.

Principles have to be uniformly applied, or they are just self-serving bullsh!t. Try to imagine all the aspects of Quebec nationalism being applied by Anglos in the rest of Canada to protect and elevate Anglo culture above all others. I cannot realistically suppose that would go over well. Also, there are at least tens if not hundreds of indigenous groupings arguing that Canada should be more than a bi-national state.

But back to my general beef, which is one I have raised before. The many cannot be tarred by the words or actions of a few. But that is the way some people want to have it, applied against others but not themselves. I searched for Parizeau's "ethnics and money" comment to re-acquaint myself with the circumstances. I was amused to get mainly "he spoke only for himself; move on" results. Apply that principle uniformly: "X speak only for themselves; move on" instead of finding ways to stretch discredit across groups of people who happen to share an occupation or a perceived placement on a social or political spectrum. The passing and re-passing under the harrow of the CAF in one case or conservative-leaning people in another ought to end.
 

TacticalTea

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Principles have to be uniformly applied, or they are just self-serving bullsh!t. Try to imagine all the aspects of Quebec nationalism being applied by Anglos in the rest of Canada to protect and elevate Anglo culture above all others. I cannot realistically suppose that would go over well.
Of course, because that would be unnecessary. The American culture is hegemonic (just as the country is, militarily). It doesn't need protecting as there is no external threat to it. Some argue that there is an internal threat and speak of great replacement or moral decay. That's a conversation that's worth having and I don't think it automatically equates to White supremacy even if the Left likes to reduce it to that for self-serving political reasons.

Yet, Americans and Canadians still join their respective military to protect their values and way of life. That desire to do so is not unnatural or bigoted, it is intrinsically human.

I totally agree with your overarching point (as highlighted in your last paragraph), so I'm a bit confused when you apply to Quebeccers a logic you claim to disagree with.

-

PS, with regards to Parizeau: What he actually said was ''Money and the ethnic vote''. Indeed, that was not very well said of him, but it remains true that the federal campaign spent more than was legally allowed per campaign rules and that it targeted particular ethnic groups. Not that that is particularly heinous; Democrats court Black Americans and Republicans court Cuban Americans. Way of the world, as much as we might wish it were different.
 

The Bread Guy

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My Maternal grandfather was Irish protestant. He had such huge hate for Irish Catholics that it was unbelievable ...
Good point re: other same-skin-on-same-skin hate -- and not the only "blue-on-blue" (so to speak) hate out there in the world, regardless of the skin colour in question.
 

lenaitch

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My Maternal grandfather was Irish protestant. He had such huge hate for Irish Catholics that it was unbelievable. Funny his second youngest daughter (mom) married a catholic.
I worked with a guy like that. I don't recall if he was Protestant or Catholic but do know he hated 'the other'. He immigrated at a very young age, probably in the '50s, and I suppose he is the product of his upbringing. The sad part is, he got married and had a son very late in life and from what I observed was raising the kid in the exact same hate he had. Sad.
 

daftandbarmy

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I worked with a guy like that. I don't recall if he was Protestant or Catholic but do know he hated 'the other'. He immigrated at a very young age, probably in the '50s, and I suppose he is the product of his upbringing. The sad part is, he got married and had a son very late in life and from what I observed was raising the kid in the exact same hate he had. Sad.

I was on the street in Belfast in one of the Loyalist housing estates, as you do, and was talking to a kid who was about 12 years old I'd guess.

I asked him what he wanted to do when he grew up. 'Kill Catholics, like my Daddy does' came the reply.

They all looked the same (pale, white, spotty) to me of course so I asked him how he could tell a Catholic from a Protestant.

He pointed to a kid across the road, in a Nationalist housing estate, and said 'See that kid there? He's got a Devil's tail. They stuff it up the backs of their shirts so you can't see it.'

He was deadly serious and not taking the piss, as they sometimes did.

I knew then that we were on a fool's errand ;)
 

The Bread Guy

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I worked with a guy like that. I don't recall if he was Protestant or Catholic but do know he hated 'the other'. He immigrated at a very young age, probably in the '50s, and I suppose he is the product of his upbringing. The sad part is, he got married and had a son very late in life and from what I observed was raising the kid in the exact same hate he had. Sad.
During the Yugo war, some said the expats (Croat/Serb/Bosnian - take yer pick) would often feel the hate-burn harder than those still in country. Wonder if that's the same in these cases?
 
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