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C3 Howitzer Replacement

SeaKingTacco said:
If you say so.
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They have a stock pile of I think 60-80,000 of these rockets that need to be used or disposed of. Some genius came up with a vehicle mounted launcher that works well. So these old rockets might have a new role. But I guess if you didn't see it for yourself or do it yourself your more right. LOL
 
markppcli said:
With any luck the M777 being out of production means we’ll have to go another direction rapidly
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I like your positive thinking but this government does not move quickly on any matters of importance, nevermind the military. Our only hope is for pressure applied via the US or maybe the cost of Chrystia Freelands move to NATO
 
markppcli said:
With any luck the M777 being out of production means we’ll have to go another direction rapidly
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I know that I'm just repeating myself but we really need to go in another direction. The M777 is a good gun for what it was designed for and we have enough of them. We need something SPish.

The K9 thunder purchase was for 38 guns and spare parts for 134 million Euro which is CA$185 today. That's reasonable and would be enough to outfit two regiments complete, which together with the M777s would properly outfit the CA as it is currently configured.

I'm partial to K9 if for no other reason that it is in mass production which is also why I like the M109/1299 series. When it comes to wheels I'd wait out the US program for its Stryker brigades because whatever they choose will likely create a large enough number to ensure parts stability for some time. Archer is just too few as it is and even Caesar with 76 sold to Saudi Arabia is barely touching on 200 as it stands.

The US has 8 SBCTs - equipping them alone would add 144 units plus training and tech spares to the inventory of whatever gets bought together with a robust maintenance line. I must admit one thing though. With the move to the US Force 2030 divisional structures where an SBCT shows up in the Heavy Div alongside two ABCTs, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the div's arty bde will standardize on an M109 across the board. I'm not sure how many Heavy divisions they are going to end up with but the structure doesn't seem to account for all 8 SBCTs.

🍻
 
markppcli said:
Finland just ordered 39 K9s, apparently it doesn’t have to be that hard
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Almost like you could just call up the manufacturer directly, negotiate a deal, and have them ordered & slated for a production run within a week or two.

Have that deal compared to deals other countries made of a similar nature to see if it was funds well spent or not.

Phone calls don’t take long. Having government lawyers review rhe documents before signing doesn’t take long. Releasing funds doesn’t take long if you’re the entity that releases said funds.


It’s mind boggling how the government’s own bureaucrats are the very thing that slows down government… they hinder progress, rather than facilitate it.

Sometimes it’s for the better, to make sure processes are followed that ensure value for money, development of opportunities, funds are spent appropriately, etc

But sometimes, they need to just get out of the way. (Ironically enough, their own way.)
 
FJAG said:
I know that I'm just repeating myself but we really need to go in another direction. The M777 is a good gun for what it was designed for and we have enough of them. We need something SPish.

The K9 thunder purchase was for 38 guns and spare parts for 134 million Euro which is CA$185 today. That's reasonable and would be enough to outfit two regiments complete, which together with the M777s would properly outfit the CA as it is currently configured.

I'm partial to K9 if for no other reason that it is in mass production which is also why I like the M109/1299 series. When it comes to wheels I'd wait out the US program for its Stryker brigades because whatever they choose will likely create a large enough number to ensure parts stability for some time. Archer is just too few as it is and even Caesar with 76 sold to Saudi Arabia is barely touching on 200 as it stands.

The US has 8 SBCTs - equipping them alone would add 144 units plus training and tech spares to the inventory of whatever gets bought together with a robust maintenance line. I must admit one thing though. With the move to the US Force 2030 divisional structures where an SBCT shows up in the Heavy Div alongside two ABCTs, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the div's arty bde will standardize on an M109 across the board. I'm not sure how many Heavy divisions they are going to end up with but the structure doesn't seem to account for all 8 SBCTs.

🍻
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But that 39 for $185 million is not how it would work here. With the accounting system we use it would $1.9 billion because we would have include the fuel, the program office, training, buildings, the ammo and the maintenance fir 20 years. Then because it is now a 2 billion dollar price tag everyone has their hand out. And the press goes for blood as we are buy weapons, Quebec says where our share, Greens say is it sustainable? The taxpayer watchdogs say too much money. Etc etc. So then buy nothing easier.
 
Spencer100 said:
But that 39 for $185 million is not how it would work here. With the accounting system we use it would $1.9 billion because we would have include the fuel, the program office, training, buildings, the ammo and the maintenance fir 20 years. Then because it is now a 2 billion dollar price tag everyone has their hand out. And the press goes for blood as we are buy weapons, Quebec says where our share, Greens say is it sustainable? The taxpayer watchdogs say too much money. Etc etc. So then buy nothing easier.
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You forgot to mention the pay and benefits for the 1,100 folks that make up the two artillery regiments and its for 40 years because that's how long we would plan on keeping these guns (Oh yeah and several mid-life upgrades. (The C3s have been here for 65 years and the M109s for 35 before we binned them.)

🍻
 
childs56 said:
Isnt it funny, a few people on here said Canada could not manufacture and or build a Artillery system here. But Australia can, interesting.
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Isn’t it funny that you are significantly selective in your reading/comprehension.

Australia isn’t building an artillery piece from scratch, they are doing it under license.

Something Canada could do, but given the # of systems Canada would acquire probably wouldn’t be financially practical to set up a production line for such a small run.

Australia is in the middle of nowhere with no significant Allies close by to provided more equipment in crisis times - and has made decisions based on that aspect.

Canada lives above the Arsenal of Democracy, and isn’t in the same situation as Oz. Which results in a lot of Canadian apathy towards Defense issues.
 
Maxman1 said:
Maybe we could buy Soltam M-71s to backfill, and maybe equip reserve units, until we can get new M777s.
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Why? It’s a marginally better gun than the M198, but offers really nothing for the CAF other than another orphan system.

Canada needs a SPA system for the CMBG’s.
The 777 is a great gun for Light Bde’s, but towed system aren’t nearly as mobile or protected as SPA’s. Which as @FJAG and other have pointed out, it’s best to buy in with the US Army on their wheeled SPA program for the Strykers, OR the M109A7 and M1299 ERCA

BAE is reported to be reopening the 777 line in FY23 to replace units sent to Ukraine from various Armies, as well as to replace combat losses in Ukraine. Time will tell if that occurs or if it’s just a partial reopening for needed spare parts and not whole systems.
 
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