Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ
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GR66
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Is that 32-cell VLS in front of the bridge or is the back row 24 x VLS and eight of a different missile type in front?
Spencer100
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It does look like 32 of the same. Most likely an older model reused. Do get your hopes up. I think the 24 use pretty much confirmed.
Halifax Tar
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Estimated cost of warship fleet rises to $84B thanks to delays, inflation: PBO
Estimated cost of warship fleet rises to $84B thanks to delays, inflation: PBO
Yves-Giroux estimates the government will pay more than $84 billion for 15 new warships
halifax.citynews.ca
Estimated cost of warship fleet rises to $84B thanks to delays, inflation: PBO
Yves-Giroux estimates the government will pay more than $84 billion for 15 new warships
halifax.citynews.ca
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Don’t forget Canadian accounting methods.Estimated cost of warship fleet rises to $84B thanks to delays, inflation: PBO
Estimated cost of warship fleet rises to $84B thanks to delays, inflation: PBO
Yves-Giroux estimates the government will pay more than $84 billion for 15 new warships
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I don't know where things stand now ... a few years actually, sadly, decades ago we found that none of the Library of Parliament (the PBO works for them and they did cost analysis before there even was a PBO), TB, PWGSC (as it was then), the OAG, the media (who matter a lot) and DND either:
I'm not sure a whole lot has changed.
1. Didn't understand anything at all about life cycle costing - and didn't care much, either;
2. Or didn't agree what should and should be counted as part of a system life cycle.
I'm not sure a whole lot has changed.
Weinie
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For the proposed cost of three warships, we could get a Gerald Ford class carrier.
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Not even close.
The USN does not add in the cost crew, fuel and maintenance over the entire life of the ship. We do.
Weinie
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Ok. Could we get a GERiatric class of carrier?
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CSC's creeping up towards $6 billion each, PBO says:
Mark
Ottawa
Canadian Surface Combatant cost may rise 9% with delays, inflation
The Canadian government has again increased its cost estimate for its next-generation frigate program, with a report by the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer showing a 9% increase in procurement costs since last year’s approximation.
The Canadian Surface Combatant program is now expected to cost CA$84.5 billion (U.S. $62.3 billion) to design and buy the 15-ship class...
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Canadian Surface Combatant cost may rise 9% with delays, inflation
Canada's frigate replacement program has seen a string of cost increases since 2017, including a new 9% cost increase since last year.www.defensenews.com
Mark
Ottawa
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To deliver one a year, there will be a few in various stages of production, but that's still a fairly aggressive drumbeat.
In any case, we only have about 5-6 crews at the moment with retention trending downwards, so curious to see what FM the RCN has planned.
Might be optimism and bling, but expect it will be entertaining and ugly AF respectively.
Edit to add: Guess what else delays delivery; these PBO updates! The amount of churn is incredible, and now a significant LOE will be diverted to explaining the details, fighting in DPS and playing politics by the people that would otherwise be providing program oversight and guidance.
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That would require industry capacity beyond what is available.
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So you have 5 or 6 crews for the Halifaxes - at 225 per ship?
1125 to 1350 sailors?
Type 31 RN - 80-100 sailors
Type 31 Pol - 100-120 sailors
Absolons - 100 sailors
Huitfeldts - 165 sailors
Type 26 RN - 157 sailors
Type 26 RAN - 180 sailors
Type 26 RCN - 204 sailors
1350 - sailors = 13 Absolons or 8 Huitfeldts
AOPS (in service) - 65 sailors
AOPS (design) - 45 sailors
6 AOPS at design = 120 sailors saved = another Absolon/Huitfeldt.
9-14 CSCs and 6 AOPS.
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Why is there such a big discrepancy between the RN, RAN, and RCN numbers of crew?
157 vs 204 is pretty significant.
FSTO
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Is somebody counting or not counting the Air Det?
Or maybe they are counting the crew when the Command Staff is embarked?
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Or force protection, boarding party etc. Don't forget a lawyer, PAFFO, photographer, padres....
Our basic skeleton crew is about 120. You can easily stack people like cordwood and blow past 250 for an HR deployer if you want to be able to do everything at once.
We're trying to operate 12 ships though with 5-6 crews, you can imagine how well that goes. You still need some crews for docking work periods as well, particularly the out of area ones like Davie.
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Which is just beyond asinine .
Crew = salaries
Fuel, munitions and Maintenance = O&M
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It's a lot of double accounting. All of that is also under the normal DND budget projections for annual spending.
Maybe they should just start including it in the 'Economic benefits'. If they are going to count SWE and associated spin offs for people building the ships, why not for people operating, maintaining and supporting the equipment?
I think if we did that CAF would be a net gain, if we used ISED math.
MTShaw
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Except our job is to keep the shipping lanes open. That includes a true sub hunter not your idealized Huitfeld. Also the Huitfeld is built like a ferry with guns and missiles rather than a war ship.If we wanted a loud ship we would have ordered the Alion bid in the first place.
Why are we afraid to do our job and the spend the necessary money to do our job. 1.2% per GDP is a disgrace.
I haven’t seen one add for naval recruitment for quite a while.
84 Billion includes everything include entry level techs how to use new tools and probably eight grades of fasteners of the same type of fastener in 20 different places. It also includes jetty recapitalization at Esqimalt.
A/B Jetty Recapitalization
DCC is a Crown corporation that delivers infrastructure and environmental projects for the defence of Canada.
www.dcc-cdc.gc.ca
There are many of other things that I’ve been told that inflate the cost of these things. inflation and the holy s**t price increase of transistors and integrated circuits Doesn’t help.
To suggest that the ships will cost 6-7 billion is either very cynical or painfully naive. I’ve been told 3.5 to 4.
