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Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

Dr Jordan Peterson is hosting Max Bernier on his podcast very soon. Doubtful Peterson would associate with a leader of a party that holds “mainstreamed racism within its collective beliefs” unless Peterson plans to take him apart. But the interview will definitely give the listeners a chance to determine what Max and the PPC stand for, and get it on the record.

At least Peterson is giving Max a chance to speak to a large audience, unlike our unbiased and fair media and electoral debate processes. Peterson has over 4 million subscribers, this could really help or really hurt Max. Let’s hear what he has to say, baseless accusations of racism and attempts to silence are illiberal.
It’s hard to call the accusations of racism baseless when the party has embraced those types. It started off fine but it has accepted various racist types into the party and haven’t done that much to course correct, if the party is being defined by others, it’s because it has set the conditions and provided all the ammo required. I don’t think Bernier is a a racist. Quite the opposite. But the PPC is now known largely as the party that attracts racists and more recently is now the anti vaccine party. If it wants to occupy those spaces that is on them and everything that comes with it.

and it has nothing to do with mainstream racism or racism as defined by biology. The types attracted to the PPC that people will lament are those that espouse post modern racism and are all to eager to support a party that has all the ingredients to fit their view and their feelings in relation to whatever culture war they feel they are part of. It’s no coincidence that Immigration, cultural identity, refugees and Muslims are stated prominently in a lot of their platform points.

I have no doubt that most PPC supporters are anti establishment, angry at the world and where it is heading and want to see change. But don’t kid yourself if you think that the vocal, racist culture warriors are not sinking their roots into the party and trying to influence its direction. They found a platform that welcomed them and they will use that to their advantage to spread their message and influence. And some nice but naive people will be all too accommodating to enable that because of their worldview that somehow free speech suppression, big government and media conspiracies are trying to keep them down.
 
It’s hard to call the accusations of racism baseless when the party has embraced those types. It started off fine but it has accepted various racist types into the party and haven’t done that much to course correct, if the party is being defined by others, it’s because it has set the conditions and provided all the ammo required. I don’t think Bernier is a a racist. Quite the opposite. But the PPC is now known largely as the party that attracts racists and more recently is now the anti vaccine party. If it wants to occupy those spaces that is on them and everything that comes with it.

and it has nothing to do with mainstream racism or racism as defined by biology. The types attracted to the PPC that people will lament are those that espouse post modern racism and are all to eager to support a party that has all the ingredients to fit their view and their feelings in relation to whatever culture war they feel they are part of. It’s no coincidence that Immigration, cultural identity, refugees and Muslims are stated prominently in a lot of their platform points.

I have no doubt that most PPC supporters are anti establishment, angry at the world and where it is heading and want to see change. But don’t kid yourself if you think that the vocal, racist culture warriors are not sinking their roots into the party and trying to influence its direction. They found a platform that welcomed them and they will use that to their advantage to spread their message and influence. And some nice but naive people will be all too accommodating to enable that because of their worldview that somehow free speech suppression, big government and media conspiracies are trying to keep them down.
"Embraced"... right.

Why don't you give me some examples and list all the racists the PPC has embraced.

Secondly, the PPC is not anti vaccine. The PPC is anti vaccine passport and anti mandatory vaccine. Which is the same position our current government had only a few months ago (recall Trudeau expressly stated there would be no mandatory vaccines or vax passports, and anyone who suggested this is where we were headed was a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist).
 
I’m not skating away from a blessed thing. You made and stated an extrapolation based on my logic and I substantially agreed with you. You spoke directly and I replied directly. You tried to set me up for an argument to make a point and instead I basically said “yeah, that checks out”. If you want to challenge my opinion of the PPC then just go for it. I’ve made my opinion quite known and I’m comfortable repeating it or elaborating on it, subject to the time I have available to do so.

The party, in its written platform, has made a number of claims or statements and articulated several platform points that I believe show a mainstreamed racism within the party’s collective beliefs. Some of it is subtle, some of it isn’t. My observation is corroborated by the type of fringe that has flocked to the party, and it’s corroborated by them literally embracing known and public racists in party positions. That’s a choice the PPC has made to try to pull enough votes to be relevant, but they’re accountable for it.

Does this mean every PPC supporter is racist? Of course not. Are some? Certainly, and I’d say more than a few. Are a few fully ignorant of this? Yes, inevitably some will manage to be. Does that leave many others wilfully blind or passively accepting of it? Necessarily yes. That troubles me, and I have concerns about the values of people who would, in the balance, be ok with that. It also means that the PPC have, institutionally, accepted that they have and will continue to appeal to that fringe. We are not defined by our associations except for in the most extreme cases, but we’re certainly coloured by them, and in some cases tainted. The PPC chose a guy to be a riding president who’s openly white nationalist, and he’s not the only real winner they’ve had onboard. Anyone who knows these things and is ok enough with them to choose to support that party has made a choice about what values and ethics they’re communicating to others. And yes, some people will intensely dislike this view and will intensely dislike me for holding it. I’m completely comfortable with that.

I trust I’ve left nothing hanging here that you’ll still feel the need to accuse me of ‘skating’ from anything?
Imputing racism has become the de facto Staples "Easy button" during an election campaign. It's not a matter of if, it is a matter of when do we (insert political party) dispense it, either in response to past or current statements, or because it is politically expedient to do so.

Every major political party in this country has had electioneering candidates who were exposed, disavowed, and ultimately dropped from the party's ballot because of their views. I would never state that (insert political party) supporters were racist because the party had originally championed a candidate. That is absurd.

Don't like the PPC's immigration policy?. Canada has a policy, endorsed by successive governments, that allowed those who invested a certain amount of money in Canada, or had certain skills, to be fast-tracked as potential immigrants. Is that racist, elitist, or pragmatic? And if it is racist, then we all are.

Immigration to Canada - Wikipedia
 
"Embraced"... right.

Why don't you give me some examples and list all the racists the PPC has embraced.

Secondly, the PPC is not anti vaccine. The PPC is anti vaccine passport and anti mandatory vaccine. Which is the same position our current government had only a few months ago (recall Trudeau expressly stated there would be no mandatory vaccines or vax passports, and anyone who suggested this is where we were headed was a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist).
What difference does it make? You won’t change your view. That’s your prerogative and choice. But you are just putting lipstick on a pig and I’m not buying it.







Or this guy who has ties to white supremacy groups. He was kicked for throwing rocks, not because he is a racist.




oh and the any vax stuff

https://.reuters.com/world/americas/canadas-mad-max-stokes-anti-vax-rage-could-help-trudeau-2021-09-14/
 
What difference does it make? You won’t change your view. That’s your prerogative and choice. But you are just putting lipstick on a pig and I’m not buying it.







Or this guy who has ties to white supremacy groups. He was kicked for throwing rocks, not because he is a racist.




oh and the any vax stuff

https://.reuters.com/world/americas/canadas-mad-max-stokes-anti-vax-rage-could-help-trudeau-2021-09-14/


 
I suppose since I lean strongly classically liberal/libertarian, my preference for the CPC makes them a bunch of libertarian extremists.
 
Echos of when extremists started flocking to the Reform Party back in the 90’s. Preston Manning had them all cast into outer darkness.

I’m not seeing Bernier doing that today. Just deny, deny, deny. Reminds me of someone else who didn’t denounce extremist supporters…:unsure:
 
The Federal Public Service has Pathfinders? Cool....

Remaking the Public Service: Here are the parties’ plans for a post-pandemic workforce​

Pre-pandemic, the capital's rush hour was defined by a small army of federal government workers who made their way, usually by public transit, from a handful of suburbs to the core.

It’s one of the big questions in the dozen or so local campaigns in this federal election: when will government employees return to their offices, and under what conditions?

The answers, for one thing, will determine just how robust will be the economic recovery in the two downtown ridings. Ottawa Centre and Hull-Aylmer respectively account for 45 per cent and 20 per cent of the federal government’s owned and leased office space in the capital region. The return to the office, if it happens, will also have a significant impact on commuting patterns throughout the city.

Pre-pandemic, the capital’s rush hour was defined by a small army of federal government workers who made their way, usually by public transit, from a handful of suburbs to the core. For the past 18 months, most of these office workers have been doing their jobs from home in the bedroom communities of Orléans, Barrhaven, Kanata and Aylmer.

The resistance to abandoning this new way of working is apparently strong.

The department in charge of the federal government’s massive real estate holdings — Public Services and Procurement Canada — said it does not have “a target date for the return to the workplace for all employees. We are currently exploring various possibilities.” This, essentially, is the Liberal Party position.

“Having done a lot of canvassing these past few weeks, I know that public servants in Orléans have different perspectives on returning to work in person,” said Marie-France Lalonde, the Liberal incumbent candidate for Orléans. “A majority seem to be leaning towards a hybrid model,” she added in reference to the arrangement that allows employees to work from home some of the time.

Lalonde stressed the government should not rush into potentially profound changes of the workplace. “The realities are not the same from one department to another,” she said, “and I know that each is working to determine the best way to proceed internally.”
Earlier this summer, PSPC launched its “pathfinder project” calling on volunteers to return to the office to test various configurations. In the first few weeks, a couple of hundred employees in the capital region stepped up.

At the beginning of the economic lockdown early last year, some 126,000 workers were directly employed locally by the federal government, representing nearly 17 per cent of the region’s workforce. Add in municipal and provincial government employees and you’ve got close to 24 per cent. Then include thousands of specialists working under contract and it’s easy to see why the region’s commuting and shopping patterns have been so radically upended during the past 18 months.

“Government offices should re-open when provincial and municipal health guidance has allowed it,” says MacEwan, “and when workers and their unions have come to an agreement that these workplaces are safe for workers.”

Which leaves the question of what to do for all those businesses adjacent to the federal towers. “We should also have targeted supports for our downtown small businesses,” adds MacEwan, pointing out these have been some of the hardest hit by the pandemic-inspired lockdowns.

For suburban ridings, the economic imperative to re-open government offices is less of a force. Nepean, for instance, accounts for less than eight per cent of the federal government’s office space in the region. The same is true of Ottawa South and Ottawa West. Most other ridings in the census metropolitan area of Ottawa-Gatineau have a minuscule federal government presence in terms of office infrastructure.

Most of Nepean’s 14,000 government workers pre-pandemic commuted to other ridings, including to the downtown core. Now they are pondering whether they should ever resume that sort of regular journey again.

“The NDP would continue to work closely with public sector unions, who are already consulting their members about permanent work-from-home solutions,” says Sean Devine, the NDP candidate for Nepean, adding that “our goal would be to arrive at mutually accepted options for where and how to work, so that the Canadian public can continue to benefit from the skill and dedication of public servants, while also ensuring that workers have choices for their own health and safety needs.”

The federal public sector unions have so far not been pressured by any of the major political parties to see their members return to the office.
Nevertheless, the Conservatives’ campaign platform framed the issue in a manner that has raised suspicions within the Public Service Alliance of Canada, the largest federal government union. PSAC focused on a couple of lines in the Conservatives’ campaign playbook that emphasized achieving savings “by making government more efficient.”

PSAC interpreted this to mean a Conservative government would trim employment and contract out more work to the private sector, though the context of the policy document suggests government employees would be permitted to work from home wherever possible, thus offering potential savings from reduced office space downtown.

Conservative candidate for Nepean stressed during the riding’s first all-candidates’ debate. “We’re going to continue to let them work remotely.”

Which leads naturally to the issue of what to do with whatever empty space emerges.

This could provide an important opening for whichever party controls the next government. Roughly half of all federal properties are in poor condition, according to Public Services and Procurement Canada. Depending on location and building type, it might be more economical to convert such properties into apartments, or sell these properties to a private developer for the same purpose.

“The post-pandemic economy presents a unique opportunity to examine new ways to address our critical housing needs,” says Devine. “If we were to support a transition of these physical workspaces into living space, this might also help address how we re-vitalize our downtown core.”

The federal government also has flexibility with a portfolio that consists of owned and leased properties in roughly equal measure. Selling off owned properties in favour of leased offices would likely allow the government to better accommodate the unpredictable demands of a hybrid or work-from-home workforce. It would also generate some gains that could be deployed for other purposes.

Remaking the Public Service: Here are the parties’ plans for a post-pandemic workforce
 
For context in Ottawa, just prior to COVID the public transit rolled out our new LRT, and it was a disaster. The winning bid was actually not technically compliant, but got forced through the council by some kind of project review board that wouldn't even provide basics like a summary of the bid scores. Our spineless leaders signed it off anyway.

Before COVID, there was daily breakdowns, long delays, missed services etc. Train switches froze in the cold, trains stopped working in the rain, and then when you got to the bus station transit points, you could be waiting an hour (outside, with hundreds of other people, with a single bus shelter). One of the underground stations stank like raw sewage because they hit a sewage pipe during construction without realizing it, but was a year or two before they figured it out.

Most recently, the trains had an axle fall off, wheels with flat spots and all kinds of other issues.

Previously most of the outstations outside the core had bus routes that ran through the communities and terminated at Place du Portage (the huge complex on Gatineau with 25k+ PS employees), so you could take a single bus to/from work. Right now it's a bus to the train, train to downtown, bus from downtown to PDP. Best case it is the same amount of time, but realistically adding rapid transit actually extended the commute, and it's a crapshoot if you'll get stuck somewhere on the train between stations and be unable to get off.

People with 20+ years of bus riding are now looking at that and giving it a 'hard no', and shouldn't be a surprise. This whole LRT is probably a good case study on major public infrastructure gone bad, but honestly don't want to go back unless I can drive, as it was a soul destroying pile on to the general Cthulu feel of cubicle 2.0 and bureaucracy. It's literally still faster for me to ride a pedal bike in then use public transit, and that's at the slow pace I'm chugging along with the post-COVID recovery that messed up my breathing for a year.

WFH is really inefficient in some ways, but spending 3-4 hours a day on a 50 km round trip is just stupid. Some things take longer to get done, some things are faster, but I definitely feel a lot better about life when I sign off at the end of the day and my commute is a walk upstairs.
 
img_6113.jpg
 
For context in Ottawa, just prior to COVID the public transit rolled out our new LRT, and it was a disaster. The winning bid was actually not technically compliant, but got forced through the council by some kind of project review board that wouldn't even provide basics like a summary of the bid scores. Our spineless leaders signed it off anyway.

Before COVID, there was daily breakdowns, long delays, missed services etc. Train switches froze in the cold, trains stopped working in the rain, and then when you got to the bus station transit points, you could be waiting an hour (outside, with hundreds of other people, with a single bus shelter). One of the underground stations stank like raw sewage because they hit a sewage pipe during construction without realizing it, but was a year or two before they figured it out.

Most recently, the trains had an axle fall off, wheels with flat spots and all kinds of other issues.

Previously most of the outstations outside the core had bus routes that ran through the communities and terminated at Place du Portage (the huge complex on Gatineau with 25k+ PS employees), so you could take a single bus to/from work. Right now it's a bus to the train, train to downtown, bus from downtown to PDP. Best case it is the same amount of time, but realistically adding rapid transit actually extended the commute, and it's a crapshoot if you'll get stuck somewhere on the train between stations and be unable to get off.

People with 20+ years of bus riding are now looking at that and giving it a 'hard no', and shouldn't be a surprise. This whole LRT is probably a good case study on major public infrastructure gone bad, but honestly don't want to go back unless I can drive, as it was a soul destroying pile on to the general Cthulu feel of cubicle 2.0 and bureaucracy. It's literally still faster for me to ride a pedal bike in then use public transit, and that's at the slow pace I'm chugging along with the post-COVID recovery that messed up my breathing for a year.

WFH is really inefficient in some ways, but spending 3-4 hours a day on a 50 km round trip is just stupid. Some things take longer to get done, some things are faster, but I definitely feel a lot better about life when I sign off at the end of the day and my commute is a walk upstairs.

Oh My God Reaction GIF
 
It’s hard to call the accusations of racism baseless when the party has embraced those types. It started off fine but it has accepted various racist types into the party and haven’t done that much to course correct, if the party is being defined by others, it’s because it has set the conditions and provided all the ammo required. I don’t think Bernier is a a racist. Quite the opposite. But the PPC is now known largely as the party that attracts racists and more recently is now the anti vaccine party. If it wants to occupy those spaces that is on them and everything that comes with it.

and it has nothing to do with mainstream racism or racism as defined by biology. The types attracted to the PPC that people will lament are those that espouse post modern racism and are all to eager to support a party that has all the ingredients to fit their view and their feelings in relation to whatever culture war they feel they are part of. It’s no coincidence that Immigration, cultural identity, refugees and Muslims are stated prominently in a lot of their platform points.

I have no doubt that most PPC supporters are anti establishment, angry at the world and where it is heading and want to see change. But don’t kid yourself if you think that the vocal, racist culture warriors are not sinking their roots into the party and trying to influence its direction. They found a platform that welcomed them and they will use that to their advantage to spread their message and influence. And some nice but naive people will be all too accommodating to enable that because of their worldview that somehow free speech suppression, big government and media conspiracies are trying to keep them down.
In my view, the LPC and NDP are the extremists. they will go to any length to be "safe" Toss 2.1 million Canadians under the buss for no appreciable Public Safety benefit, sure why not. Toss aside industries that produce revenue for the country with no real replacement, for sure. "Admire dictatorships" check that box off. Punish anyone that stands up to the leadership cabal, dam right! and the list goes on.
 
Yup; pretty bad. At least with the Simpsons monorail they had an amusing musical interlude!

Also forgot to mention, a few of the stations had awful drainage/water flow issues. There are a few where you get impromptu lakes that turn into skating rinks and I think one of them had the stairs covered with ice. Just really poor basic landscaping, so not sure who signed off on that.

The delivery contract is with SNC, and is performance based, so they frequently don't get paid at all each month, but think people here would be pretty happy to have reliable transit and pay the bill.

The wheels literally falling off the train was something you can't make up though. Even for government procurement that's pretty appalling, and when civil servants are angry at how bad you f*&d up a big procurement, you know things have gone wrong!
 
What difference does it make? You won’t change your view. That’s your prerogative and choice. But you are just putting lipstick on a pig and I’m not buying it.







Or this guy who has ties to white supremacy groups. He was kicked for throwing rocks, not because he is a racist.




oh and the any vax stuff

https://.reuters.com/world/americas/canadas-mad-max-stokes-anti-vax-rage-could-help-trudeau-2021-09-14/
So what is that, two or three miscreants out of over 300 candidates in a new start up party? That might be a lower ratio than the population.

Plus you found some ugly media articles about a party that will end the billion dollar media bailouts... ok.

Now do the other political parties.
 
So what is that, two or three miscreants out of over 300 candidates in a new start up party? That might be a lower ratio than the population.

Plus you found some ugly media articles about a party that will end the billion dollar media bailouts... ok.

Now do the other political parties.
You do them. Every time you ask for proof or sources or whatever and someone ponies up you use the tired bought media line, government conspiracy to suppress or whatever crazy theory is out there. Stay blind. I don’t care, your party isn’t going to win so it’s moot. If anything it’s spurring the LPC supporters to come out. Well done PPC, well done. Split the vote and ensure the liberals win again.

You obviously missed my point or the articles about the type of people the PPC attracts. Especially the ringing endorsement it got from white nationalist groups telling their members to vote PPC.

You’ve done nothing or provided anything to disprove anything I sourced. So…ok.
 
One of the most amusing features of rail transit is when the line is blocked and...they bring in bus shuttles. It's surprisingly difficult to impress upon our highly intelligent and educated classes how much cheaper and more flexible buses are.
 
One of the most amusing features of rail transit is when the line is blocked and...they bring in bus shuttles. It's surprisingly difficult to impress upon our highly intelligent and educated classes how much cheaper and more flexible buses are.
Considering OC transpo laid off its bus drivers before the system was even up and running and had to hire them again makes your comment even more relevant.
 
WFH is really inefficient in some ways, but spending 3-4 hours a day on a 50 km round trip is just stupid. Some things take longer to get done, some things are faster, but I definitely feel a lot better about life when I sign off at the end of the day and my commute is a walk upstairs.
Also not spending half a day to get to one or two meetings, or so I've heard.
 
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