6 Jan 2020 U.S. Events (Split from A Deeply Fractured US)

[Brad Sallows]

"These are the same people we fought in World War II."

In which Milley made an idiotic statement. Not something worth drawing attention to.

 

[Brad Sallows]

You may want to stop and ask yourself why you have any sympathy for these fools.

Having sympathy for someone and being vindictive/vengeful are wildly different things.

 

[Altair]

Having sympathy for someone and being vindictive/vengeful are wildly different things.

They are simply fortunate I am not in charge of their fates.

In the meantime, I will continue to call them what I believe they are.

Homegrown terrorists.

Insurrectionists.

Traitors.

Fools.

Free speech and all that.

You can do what you like.

 

[Remius]

It’s simple. It’s all about whether you identify with the right or not. People, even here, have positives in the past who would try and violently oppose an election. Jan 6th saw people from the right do exactly that. Those that typically identify with or minimise the actions of that side are naturally going to minimise what happened.

go look at the thread about the biggest terrorist threat in the US. It’s right wing extremists but apologists minimise that despite all evidence to the contrary.

Jan 6th is just another example. Despite body cam footage, actually broken bodies and suicides, some people just will never accept the facts that don’t fit their narrative.

just stop arguing. There is no point. The perpetrators are being punished and rightly so. That’s all that matters.

 

[Altair]

It’s simple. It’s all about whether you identify with the right or not. People, even here, have positives in the past who would try and violently oppose an election. Jan 6th saw people from the right do exactly that. Those that typically identify with or minimise the actions of that side are naturally going to minimise what happened.

go look at the thread about the biggest terrorist threat in the US. It’s right wing extremists but apologists minimise that despite all evidence to the contrary.

Jan 6th is just another example. Despite body cam footage, actually broken bodies and suicides, some people just will never accept the facts that don’t fit their narrative.

just stop arguing. There is no point. The perpetrators are being punished and rightly so. That’s all that matters.

I agree with everything you said there.

The highlighted section is for those who expect me to stop calling them what I do. Stop arguing. You don't need to agree with what I call them, you clearly don't, but don't expect me to stop doing it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The expressed sentiments of people like you are why the people in charge think a hard line is an appropriate one to take; you give them political cover and reassurance. People in charge who take a hard line are why some people move closer to the edge and some tip over.

Information technology makes it impossible to conceal differences in the way people are treated before the law - VIPs versus schmoes, left supporters versus right supporters. Differences aggravate senses of injustice and corrode trust in rule of law and authority. Assuming the problem away is foolish. Intelligent, informed, reasonable people should want to turn the temperature down, perhaps by foregoing the satiation of rage. But, lese majeste! Off with their heads!

Avoid the unnecessary battle. Never fight the unwinnable one. I know the protesters picked the first fight, but they're not picking the one in progress.

 

[Altair]

The expressed sentiments of people like you are why the people in charge think a hard line is an appropriate one to take; you give them political cover and reassurance. People in charge who take a hard line are why some people move closer to the edge and some tip over.

I don't think politicians are off checking the social media sites, and forum boards before coming to a decision. And if they were, me, as an individual, isn't going to change anything. But on the off chance that someone important to the proceedings of Jan 6th reads my comments, give them hell please.

Information technology makes it impossible to conceal differences in the way people are treated before the law - VIPs versus schmoes, left supporters versus right supporters. Differences aggravate senses of injustice and corrode trust in rule of law and authority. Assuming the problem away is foolish. Intelligent, informed, reasonable people should want to turn the temperature down, perhaps by foregoing the satiation of rage. But, lese majeste! Off with their heads!

So people get to trash the capital, threaten politicians, injure police, delay the democratic process, but I must turn the temperature down, be reasonable, forego rage?

Why did these fools not turn the temperature down, be reasonable, forego rage? Nah, they made their beds, now they sleep in it.

Avoid the unnecessary battle. Never fight the unwinnable one. I know the protesters picked the first fight, but they're not picking the one in progress.

I don't know what planet you live on where someone can go off and do the unthinkable and everyone else must be calm and measured in response.

Post 9-11 were we preaching peace, and calm, never fight the unwinnable fight? No, no we were not.

Is this as bad as 9-11? No, so don't go off on a tangent about that. But the logic behind it is the same.

These homegrown terrorists, insurrectionists, traitors and fools did what they did and I am not the least bit ashamed or shy, or reserved in saying I would love seeing justice served, whether that be in the judicial system, employment, or simply societal shame. Revenge as it were. Let it serve as a message to any other would be fool that there are consequences for trying to disrupt the democratic process.

Now, as a wise man once said, just stop arguing. There is no point. I'm going to call them what I call them, and if you disagree, that is your right. But I'm not going to stop calling them homegrown terrorists, insurrectionists, traitors and fools.

 

[Brad Sallows]

What's amused me most about the past few years (politically) is how swiftly the wheel turns (sauce for the goose, etc). I can't predict what kind of "disrupt the democratic process" is next, but I can guess it won't all be right-wing extremists if the Democrats do poorly in the midterms or the next presidential year. Then people will find out how unshakeable their devotion to stern punishment is.

 

[Altair]

What's amused me most about the past few years (politically) is how swiftly the wheel turns (sauce for the goose, etc). I can't predict what kind of "disrupt the democratic process" is next, but I can guess it won't all be right-wing extremists if the Democrats do poorly in the midterms or the next presidential year. Then people will find out how unshakeable their devotion to stern punishment is.

I promise you, from the bottom of my heart, that if left wing extremists charge the capital building in any capacity, they don't even need to make it inside, just make an attempt, I will call them homegrown terrorists, insurrectionists, traitors and fools.

Because guess what? I don't back left wing extremists, I don't back right wing extremists, I don't back any extremists.

If I could suggest anything for you, it is that you have less sympathy for any form of extremists, despite the right or left label in front of the name.

 

[QV]

I promise you, from the bottom of my heart, that if left wing extremists charge the capital building in any capacity, they don't even need to make it inside, just make an attempt, I will call them homegrown terrorists, insurrectionists, traitors and fools.

Because guess what? I don't back left wing extremists, I don't back right wing extremists, I don't back any extremists.

If I could suggest anything for you, it is that you have less sympathy for any form of extremists, despite the right or left label in front of the name.

Are you on the record here with this same position for all those antifa rioters assaulting court houses, police stations? I don’t recall that you were, but I could be mistaken.

 

[Altair]

Are you on the record here with this same position for all those antifa rioters assaulting court houses, police stations? I don’t recall that you were, but I could be mistaken.

Yes, yes I am. I have no love for antifa, and while I can get behind peaceful BLM protests that goes away the second that they start setting things on fire, attacking court houses, attacking police stations.

I wont equate that with what happened Jan 6th, for that was the next level of these actions, but I am not a supporter and do not defend the leftist extremists who engage in these acts.

 

[mariomike]

I wont equate that with what happened Jan 6th,

Nothing new about riots in America.

List of incidents of civil unrest in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This was a first. Most sensible people understand that.

Trump provoked deadly Capitol riot, Senate GOP leader Mitch McConnell says

McConnell's remarks came as he and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer work to hash out details on Trump's impending impeachment trial.

www.cnbc.com

 

[lenaitch]

Not US Code; part of article 3 of constitution.



Not particularly narrow. Pretty much any exercise of opposition to a law can be defined as "rebellion".



Ditto, "sedition".

I'm not sure what constitution you are reading. I see none of those words in Article 3. Section 3 defines "treason" but the substantive law is contained in the US legal code, as previously cited.

 

[Brad Sallows]

To "If you scroll further down the US Code that you quoted you will find:", I responded "Not US Code; part of article 3 of constitution". Which means, I did not refer to USC (don't know why you assumed that I had); I quoted part of the constitution.

The rest ("Not particularly narrow...") was in response to sections of USC you quoted, which I assume you stated correctly.

 

[QV]

I wont equate that with what happened Jan 6th, for that was the next level of these actions, but I am not a supporter and do not defend the leftist extremists who engage in these acts.

There is no way you can logically conclude Jan 6th was "next level" compared to the destruction and death that occurred over the summer of antifa/blm riots. Making that kind of conclusion is purely based on political bias and not facts.

 

[lenaitch]

To "If you scroll further down the US Code that you quoted you will find:", I responded "Not US Code; part of article 3 of constitution". Which means, I did not refer to USC (don't know why you assumed that I had); I quoted part of the constitution.

The rest ("Not particularly narrow...") was in response to sections of USC you quoted, which I assume you stated correctly.

I may have mis-read the snippets. The Constitution lays out the parameters for treason, but the actual offence (US Code) was written by Congress. I'm not aware of any actual offences in the Constitution; that is the role of the legislative body.

Regardless, we are verging on an 'angels on a pin' discussion. Some here used the term "traitor", some objected to it. Clearly, the two were not charged with Treason. Whether or not they committed another federal crime is up to federal prosecutors, but their employer felt that their conduct and presence was sufficiently egregious in light of their oath of office and rules of conduct to warrant dismissal.

 

[QV]

FBI Finds ‘Scant Evidence’ That January 6 Riot Was ‘Result Of Organized Plot To Overturn’ Election: Reuters | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

FBI Reportedly Finds No Evidence That Jan. 6 Was a Coordinated Event: 'There Was No Grand Scheme'

A new Reuters report says the FBI has found there was no grand plan coordinating the incursion of the Capitol.

www.westernjournal.com

Oh...

But the media and many people on this site stated this was an actual insurrection inspired by President Trump... I guess it wasn't, who knew?

 

[mariomike]

But the media and many people on this site stated this was an actual insurrection inspired by President Trump...

Trump provoked deadly Capitol riot, Senate GOP leader Mitch McConnell says

McConnell's remarks came as he and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer work to hash out details on Trump's impending impeachment trial.

www.cnbc.com

 

[brihard]

FBI Finds ‘Scant Evidence’ That January 6 Riot Was ‘Result Of Organized Plot To Overturn’ Election: Reuters | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

FBI Reportedly Finds No Evidence That Jan. 6 Was a Coordinated Event: 'There Was No Grand Scheme'

A new Reuters report says the FBI has found there was no grand plan coordinating the incursion of the Capitol.

www.westernjournal.com

Oh...

But the media and many people on this site stated this was an actual insurrection inspired by President Trump... I guess it wasn't, who knew?

Nothing in the article contradicts that. Indications are, at this point, that there were some smaller formed groups with some advance plans. On th day of, those coalesced in the larger context of a massive riot. The intent was absolutely to disrupt the peaceful, legal transition of power using force. The fact that it was semi-spontaneous doesn’t take away from the nature or quality of the actions. And to claim it wasn’t ‘inspired by’ Trump is of course farcical. Hundreds of them were literally waving his flag.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

FBI Finds Scant Evidence US Capitol Attack Was Coordinated​

FBI Finds Scant Evidence US Capitol Attack Was Coordinated

The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law...

www.newsmax.com

The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials.

More at link.