Strike

[Remius]

So, you’re saying you don’t have one? Ack.

No I can provide plenty. I’m not the one who brought it up.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If I were a young soldier, living on base, with no heat or hot water in my shack for the duration of the strike, I'd have a major hard on for anything PSAC. Zero sympathy for the imagined plight of some of the most overpaid, underworked people in Canada.

There's some things you don't fuck with just to make your point.

All Canadian taxpayers saw was more taxes coming to keep PSAC comfortable. Especially, when there is no outward appearance that anything has changed. Nobody waiting on passports, Veterans waiting on VAC and people waiting on services from other public entities has seen any improvement in service. Those services were shit, before, during and will continue to be shit well after this strike is forgotten.

If I understand things correctly they didn't even have a proper strike vote. The majority of PSAC people weren't even consulted by their union. That would be something that should be robustly investigated, if true.

 

[Remius]

If I were a young soldier, living on base, with no heat or hot water in my shack for the duration of the strike, I'd have a major hard on for anything PSAC. Zero sympathy for the imagined plight of some of the most overpaid, underworked people in Canada.

That wasn’t PSAC or the workers fault. That is management and quite likely CoC issues (admittedly I’m not sure who in a base that would fall under. Base commander?) It’s up to them to designate who is an essential worker.

There's some things you don't fuck with just to make your point.

All Canadian taxpayers saw was more taxes coming to keep PSAC comfortable. Especially, when there is no outward appearance that anything has changed. Nobody waiting on passports, Veterans waiting on VAC and people waiting on services from other public entities has seen any improvement in service. Those services were shit, before, during and will continue to be shit well after this strike is forgotten.

If I understand things correctly they didn't even have a proper strike vote. The majority of PSAC people weren't even consulted by their union. That would be something that should be robustly investigated, if true.

There were some significant irregularities in the strike vote. The labour board I think did take a look. I’m one of those that repeatedly tried to register to vote and got the run around.

 

[The Bread Guy]

… provide specific references to ‘overthrowing the government’ ...

From the Memorandum of Understanding getting the whole thing rolling ...

... The Senate of Canada and the Governor General, combined referred to as the Federal Government are to uphold and enforce all Canadian and International Human Rights Laws that are clearly laid out in the MOU or “RESIGN their lawful positions of authority Immediately” ...

"Senate & GG: remove all mandates ordered by government and/or Parliament, or quit - and we're not even talking to you, House of Commons." Yeah, the miasma became about more than just that, but this was the keystone document.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Its misguided, much like there attempts to get the governor general to dissolve parliament. That isn’t overthrowing the government though unless you consider every election to be a overthrowing of the government.

The government was also never at risk or they would never have gathered all of parliament to vote on them in person for the first time since covid started, just down the streets from this force seeking to ‘overthrow’ them.

As France is showing us right now, things can be a whole lot more violent and less controlled well still retaining a grip on their society.

 

[Chargersfan]

From the Memorandum of Understanding getting the whole thing rolling ...

"Senate & GG: remove all mandates ordered by government and/or Parliament, or quit - and we're not even talking to you, House of Commons." Yeah, the miasma became about more than just that, but this was the keystone document.

How Canadian. A letter asking the government to quit is now an ‘overthrow‘ attempt.

Did they use poison ink? Was it an email with a Nigerian phishing scam attached??

Barbarians.

 

[Quirky]

As France is showing us right now, things can be a whole lot more violent and less controlled well still retaining a grip on their society.

Canada and Canadians are weak society in general. We offer nothing but platitudes.

 

[The Bread Guy]

How Canadian. A letter asking the government to quit is now an ‘overthrow‘ attempt ...

When seen in other countries, "requests" for government bodies to step down, backed by masses of people and vehicles pissed with said government heading to the capital to ensure some action could be seen in that light. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder - YMMV.

 

[Halifax Tar]

When seen in other countries, "requests" for government bodies to step down, backed by masses of people and vehicles pissed with said government heading to the capital to ensure some action could be seen in that light. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder - YMMV.

If that was an attempt to overthrow the government then that it is most polite and most Canadian version of a coup or overthrow in history.

It could have only been more Canadian if the written request started and ended with "sorry".

 

[The Bread Guy]

If that was an attempt to overthrow the government then that it is most polite and most Canadian version of a coup or overthrow in history.

It could have only been more Canadian if the written request started and ended with "sorry".

Looking back afterwards, yeah, it wasn't a coup - hindsight being 20-20 and all. Someone asked for documentation suggesting a non-democratic change of government (or at least change of Senate & GG, without even mentioning the House of Commons) based on demands "or else", and it was shared.

If PSAC requested/demanded the same thing using the same terms, or ANTIFA-esque groups, or "decolonization" organizations, while mobilizing a major action in Ottawa, would it be laughed off as "just a polite request in the history of Canadian politeness"? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Looking back afterwards, yeah, it wasn't a coup - hindsight being 20-20 and all. Someone asked for documentation suggesting a non-democratic change of government (or at least change of Senate & GG, without even mentioning the House of Commons) based on demands "or else", and it was shared.

The problem is, like our response to COVID, hindsight is 20/20 and a whoops isn't good enough. Peoples lives have been ruined and the country further divided.

If PSAC requested/demanded the same thing using the same terms, or ANTIFA-esque groups, or "decolonization" organizations, while mobilizing a major action in Ottawa, would it be laughed off as "just a polite request in the history of Canadian politeness"? Maybe, maybe not.

If <insert protest group here> is as polite as the convoy then yes it should treated with the same level of threat. When they storm Gov buildings, terminate sitting politicians, and make public their taking control of the country then we can whip out the CF18s and treat them appropriately.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... If <insert protest group here> is as polite as the convoy then yes it should treated with the same level of threat. When they storm Gov buildings, terminate sitting politicians, and make public their taking control of the country then we can whip out the CF18s and treat them appropriately.

Yup, for sure - the ask was for a "… provide specific references to ‘overthrowing the government’ ...", and some would say the document could be seen in that light. YMMV.

 

[IKnowNothing]

If that was an attempt to overthrow the government then that it is most polite and most Canadian version of a coup or overthrow in history.

The stated intent was to "choke out" the NCR via big rig road block to get it signed and enacted. If they had the amount of support and number of trucks that they ignorantly convinced themselves that they did things would have looked a lot different.

What determines the severity of an action, intent or execution?

 

[Remius]

There was no coup. There was no overthrow.

There was a demand and it was part of that specific group’s motivation (within the original larger disjointed intent). It was never a possibility one way or another but it revealed what they really were about. It’s also where they screwed up, showed they had no clue how the country works and lost what narrative they had.

Again, we are derailing and making the same arguments that we’re made in another thread.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The stated intent was to "choke out" the NCR via big rig road block to get it signed and enacted. If they had the amount of support and number of trucks that they ignorantly convinced themselves that they did things would have looked a lot different.

What determines the severity of an action, intent or execution?

Capability - Proximity - Intent

Once those three pillars are met you can be concerned.

 

[lenaitch]

Capability - Proximity - Intent

Once those three pillars are met you can be concerned.

But those three elements can take on different weights, depending on the weight of any one of them. The bombing of the building in Oklahoma City in no reasonable way could have been seen as a threat to the functioning or continued existence of the entire US government, but it was still a terrorist act. Proving intent is less important when we find a dude in an alley behind a business at 3am with a crowbar and a mask.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If I were a young soldier, living on base, with no heat or hot water in my shack for the duration of the strike, I'd have a major hard on for anything PSAC. Zero sympathy for the imagined plight of some of the most overpaid, underworked people in Canada.

There's some things you don't fuck with just to make your point.

All Canadian taxpayers saw was more taxes coming to keep PSAC comfortable. Especially, when there is no outward appearance that anything has changed. Nobody waiting on passports, Veterans waiting on VAC and people waiting on services from other public entities has seen any improvement in service. Those services were shit, before, during and will continue to be shit well after this strike is forgotten.

If I understand things correctly they didn't even have a proper strike vote. The majority of PSAC people weren't even consulted by their union. That would be something that should be robustly investigated, if true.

The members of PSAC also got screwed around for years by the government thanks to the Phoenix fiasco. Many of them driven to bankruptcy by the inability to be paid. They put up with that for years and still showed up for work and many worked very hard in that time, wondering if they get paid. Frankly they should have walked out then, on that issue, with the demand for the careers of senior executives involved to be publicly sacrificed before returning.

 

[Halifax Tar]

But those three elements can take on different weights, depending on the weight of any one of them. The bombing of the building in Oklahoma City in no reasonable way could have been seen as a threat to the functioning or continued existence of the entire US government, but it was still a terrorist act. Proving intent is less important when we find a dude in an alley behind a business at 3am with a crowbar and a mask.

We're talking about over throwing a Canadian government. Not patrolling the quickie mart.

 

[lenaitch]

We're talking about over throwing a Canadian government. Not patrolling the quickie mart.

You lost me, but no worries - it's probably me.

 

[Remius]

I thought we were talking about the strike…