How the US will fight - if it is able.

[UnwiseCritic]

Successful counter-insurgencies (English Speaking)
Rhodesia
Malaya
Ireland
Oman

All of which were kept under wraps at the time, 2 of which required a putting a local face on the war. Also none of which used very many conventional troops, and usually when they did they weren't acting as conventional soldiers.

My previous post argues give someone there freedom and they will abuse it/not fully understand it. Make someone fight for their freedom and it will be more precious. Doesn't mean you can't help them but let them largely believe they won it themselves. Eg all the Arab uprisings, they loved us then/now but no not when America went into Iraq.

So now in a world with instant information writing books about a war if it is still ongoing will attract the attention of the media. When the media gets involved they like to spin the truth for a better story and they hinder our troops ability to do what's necessary to win. They may also claim that we do all the fighting in which case the locals may begin to distrust the local force that is going to be left behind once the west pulls out.

Back to my original point, if they distrust the local army/militia they won't support them as much. Especially if they believe the the otherside will takeover the country again once the west leaves. (Current situation afghanistan) And if you don't have support from the locals you won't win anyway.

 

[Old Sweat]

No, but they should focus on their budget and just use SF that won't write a book about it to fight there enemies. I am not even sure if there was ever an unconventional war won by conventional troops in the history of war. So you spend more and put more at risk too lose the war.

By conventional troops, if you mean armies structured to fight a conventional war, then you have a point. However many conventional armies adapted to the requirements of unconventional war and prevailed. It is important to stress that unconventional wars largely are won by adopting a relevant strategy and defeating the enemy by winning the war of public opinion as well as running down the enemy's resolve in the field. The classic example is the British campaign in Malaya.

If you are interested, and I suspect you may well be, get a copy of John Nagl's Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife: Counterinsurgency Lessons from Malaya and Vietnam. The 2005 edition is available in an inexpensive paperback edition.

 

[OldSolduer]

Successful counter-insurgencies (English Speaking)
Rhodesia
Malaya
Ireland
Oman

All of which were kept under wraps at the time, 2 of which required a putting a local face on the war. Also none of which used very many conventional troops, and usually when they did they weren't acting as conventional soldiers.

My previous post argues give someone there freedom and they will abuse it/not fully understand it. Make someone fight for their freedom and it will be more precious. Doesn't mean you can't help them but let them largely believe they won it themselves. Eg all the Arab uprisings, they loved us then/now but no not when America went into Iraq.

So now in a world with instant information writing books about a war if it is still ongoing will attract the attention of the media. When the media gets involved they like to spin the truth for a better story and they hinder our troops ability to do what's necessary to win. They may also claim that we do all the fighting in which case the locals may begin to distrust the local force that is going to be left behind once the west pulls out.

Back to my original point, if they distrust the local army/militia they won't support them as much. Especially if they believe the the otherside will takeover the country again once the west leaves. (Current situation afghanistan) And if you don't have support from the locals you won't win anyway.

Rhodesia is now Zimbabwe - If I am not mistaken its a thugorcracy, so that, to my little pea brain is not a successful COIN op

And I enjoy reading the books read by former SF Personel.

 

[UnwiseCritic]

I enjoy reading them as well, doesn't mean that they should be written. At least while the war is ongoing.

Eating soup with a knife, first read that in seven pillars of wisdom. Also a good read for anyone interested, as it's from the guerrillas themselves. Perhaps the inventor of modern guerilla warfare.

Yes rhodesia is now Zimbabwe, mostly due to political betrayal.

I will look into that book

 

[OldSolduer]

I enjoy reading them as well, doesn't mean that they should be written. At least while the war is ongoing.

Eating soup with a knife, first read that in seven pillars of wisdom. Also a good read for anyone interested, as it's from the guerrillas themselves. Perhaps the inventor of modern guerilla warfare.

Yes rhodesia is now Zimbabwe, mostly due to political betrayal.

I will look into that book

I disagree with SF pers being forbidden to write a book. Freedom of the press is guaranteed in our Charter and to ban this is against the spirit of the Charter IMO. If 'Bob JTF2 ' guy wants to write, I say let em.

Claiirify "political betrayal" to me from your last statement.


Thanks

 

[UnwiseCritic]

It started well before the war with England and such, it is hard to put it all in a paragraph. There is a book called the Great Betrayal by Ian Smith. Though in the end when Rhodesia was left to stand on its own they did lose.

And I am quite certain sf personnel waive some sort of right when they sign on.

 

[OldSolduer]

I am not certain if SF pers sign waivers.

What I do know is that Rhodesia was handed over as a functioning nation and is now a thugocracy.

 

[IRepoCans]

I'm sure the US war machine spends way too much money on weirdo DARPA projects.

You'd be surprised how inspired the US Military is by the Novel; Starship Troopers.

 

[daftandbarmy]

You'd be surprised how inspired the US Military is by the Novel; Starship Troopers.

And, interestingly enough, while he was writing it Heinlein was apparently influenced by watching the Canadian Army train at Ft Lewis for the Korean War.

 

[Jarnhamar]

And, interestingly enough, while he was writing it Heinlein was apparently influenced by watching the Canadian Army train at Ft Lewis for the Korean War.

That's really interesting.

 

[IRepoCans]

And, interestingly enough, while he was writing it Heinlein was apparently influenced by watching the Canadian Army train at Ft Lewis for the Korean War.

Now that is something interesting to note, curious as to what the Canadian Army did there that influenced his concept of Mobile Infantry.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Military history, traditions, and military scienceThe Korean War ended only five years before Heinlein began writing Starship Troopers, and the book makes several direct references to it, such as the claim that "no 'Department of Defense' ever won a war."[20] Heinlein also refers to the American prisoners of war taken in that conflict, including the popular accusations of Communist brainwashing.[21] After the Korean War ended, there were rumors that the Chinese and North Koreans continued to hold a large number of Americans.[22] Rico's History and Moral Philosophy class at Officer Candidate School has a long discussion about whether it is moral to never leave a single man behind, even at the risk of starting a new war. Rico debates whether it was worth it to risk two nations' futures over a single fellow soldier who might not even deserve to live by some standard, but concludes it "doesn't matter whether it's a thousand – or just one, sir. You fight."[23]

Several references are made to other wars: these include the name of the starship that collided with Valley Forge; Ypres, a major battleground in World War I; the starship Mannerheim, a reference to the World War II-era marshal of Finland; and Rico's boot camp, Camp Arthur Currie (named after Sir Arthur Currie who commanded the Canadian Corps during WWI). A brief reference is also made to Camp Sergeant Smokey Smith, named after a Canadian recipient of the Victoria Cross in World War II. The airport was the location of the U.S. Army Air Corps' Walla Walla Army Air Base in World War II. The 91st Bomb Group lays claim to being the first Army Air Forces outfit to use that base. Another World War I reference was the phrase "Come on, you apes! You wanna live forever?", which comes from Gunnery Sergeant Dan Daly at the Battle of Belleau Wood (although instead of "apes", Daly said "sons of bitches"). This phrase, however, has been attributed to various people throughout military history, including perhaps the earliest documented citation by Frederick II of Prussia when he was meant to have said "Kerls, wollt ihr ewig leben?" (tr. "Men, would you live forever?") at the Battle of Kolín. The starship corvette Rodger Young was named after the World War II Medal of Honor recipient, and lines from the chorus of Frank Loesser's Ballad of Rodger Young are used as the ship's recall signal. Another war reference, this one from the War of 1812, involves some implications of the court-martial of Third Lieutenant William Sitgreaves Cox, which are discussed in some detail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers

 

[a_majoor]

Starship Troopers is on the USMC reading list as part of their professional development program.

Weirdo DARPA projects are only a small fraction of US defense spending, and have the potential to push the state of the art way beyond anything that exosts today, although since this is speculative R&D, the vast majority of the projects are doomed to fail. R&D is like that, so there is no reason not to continue, prepare to cut your losses and move on.

Streamlining the US military bureaucracy and headquarters structures will have much more of a positive efect on spending and efficiency than any other real or proposed reform. Read Robert Kaplan's books Imperial Grunts and Hog Pilots, Blue Water Grunts: The American Military in the Air, at Sea, and on the Ground to see various examples of how things are done today and some observations from the men and women on the ground about where they think the future will lead.

 

[UnwiseCritic]

The Germans in WW2 had an equivalent of darpa it made the first long range rockets and subsequently jet powered aircraft. As well as the first useful helicopter, the first guided missiles, another aircraft with "stealth" capabilities the b2 bomber is almost identical. All stuff that normal science was not  pursuing on a serious level. Those are only a few, there is the weird side of UFO's and all too.

Maybe starship troopers is not all that far off

 

[Breezybree2002]

While I agree that books about missions seem a little weird....I don't think anyone will win a war against a country just from reading one. I just think it is bad form to speak or write about missions...spec ops is supposed to be silent warriors. However....in the other side of that coin...if a soldier needs to talk about it to get it off his chest....then by all means let's help him to recover from what he saw or had to do. Because sometimes they do what they have to do...not for political reasons or morality but to save theirs and their comrades lives....and deal with the emotional costs later.
  Just a thought or two

 

[Sythen]

While I agree that books about missions seem a little weird....I don't think anyone will win a war against a country just from reading one. I just think it is bad form to speak or write about missions...spec ops is supposed to be silent warriors. However....in the other side of that coin...if a soldier needs to talk about it to get it off his chest....then by all means let's help him to recover from what he saw or had to do. Because sometimes they do what they have to do...not for political reasons or morality but to save theirs and their comrades lives....and deal with the emotional costs later.
  Just a thought or two

I don't think its up to us to decide whether a SOF member is a "silent warrior" or not. He has earned his place and frankly, as long as it doesn't break any laws, I don't care what books he writes.  If he writes a book to cope with what he saw, or purely for monetary gain.. Good on him either way.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Successful counter-insurgencies (English Speaking)
Rhodesia
Malaya
Ireland
Oman

All of which were kept under wraps at the time, 2 of which required a putting a local face on the war. Also none of which used very many conventional troops, and usually when they did they weren't acting as conventional soldiers.

My previous post argues give someone there freedom and they will abuse it/not fully understand it. Make someone fight for their freedom and it will be more precious. Doesn't mean you can't help them but let them largely believe they won it themselves. Eg all the Arab uprisings, they loved us then/now but no not when America went into Iraq.

So now in a world with instant information writing books about a war if it is still ongoing will attract the attention of the media. When the media gets involved they like to spin the truth for a better story and they hinder our troops ability to do what's necessary to win. They may also claim that we do all the fighting in which case the locals may begin to distrust the local force that is going to be left behind once the west pulls out.

Back to my original point, if they distrust the local army/militia they won't support them as much. Especially if they believe the the otherside will takeover the country again once the west leaves. (Current situation afghanistan) And if you don't have support from the locals you won't win anyway.

Malaysia used significant amount of conventional troops and police. Their job was to hold ground while the SF troops patrolled deep into the jungle to disrupt the CT’s. Each step was fairly well thought out and had several elements that were critical. A few unique features was the revolt was almost purely in the Chinese community, the initial leader of the CT’s was a double agent that hampered their growth until he was exposed and replaced. The brits were able to cutoff supplies to the CT’s by the use of the “Briggs Plan” something that Chin Peng (Leader of the CT’s) acknowledge was a key component of their defeat. Also the brits succeeded in isolating and then turning CT’s who were then released back into the jungle to collect information, even those that were not turned were released, but then information would be leaked that they had been, upon which the CT’s would execute them on the spot, soon the CT’s were busy killing off each other to plug leaks. Combined with excellent EW against their communication grid, forcing them to rely on runners.
Plus close support by the RAF both transporting troops, supplies and ground attacks also maintained the constant pressure on the CT’s. another factor was the ability of the Malay government and Brits to reach out with peace offers. Chin Peng had fought the Japs alongside the Brits and as part of the peace talks his former brit colleagues were used to build up a relationship that eventually ended the emergency.  The CT’s never did receive the support they thought they would get from Beijing, who did have a “domino plan” but felt the conditions in Malaysia were not conducive to success. Interesting enough around 200 former Japanese soldiers fought with the CT’s until I think the first peace talks, where upon the CT’s murdered the Japanese as they would be an embarrassment to their cause. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

We always hope that these lessons will inform future actions but, as we learn from history, lessons like this are not always implemented:

What America Learned in Iraq
By JOHN A. NAGL

THE costs of the second Iraq war, which began 10 years ago this week, are staggering: nearly 4,500 Americans killed and more than 30,000 wounded, many grievously; tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis wounded or killed; more than $2 trillion in direct government expenditures; and the significant weakening of the major regional counterweight to Iran and consequent strengthening of that country’s position and ambitions. Great powers rarely make national decisions that explode so quickly and completely in their face.

It may seem folly to seek a silver lining among these thunderclouds. But there are three flickers of light that offer some hope that the enormous price was not paid entirely in vain. These coins offer a meager return on our enormous investment, but not collecting them would be an insult to the memory of all that we have lost.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/20/opinion/the-silver-linings-of-iraq.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130320&_r=0